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06-08-2011, 02:54 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
After departing from Sony for their reckless decisions about Minolta, I shudder at the thought of anyone taking over Pentax. Maybe one generation of good gear to appease the Pentax faithful, as Sony did up to the A700 - then welcome to the world as Samsung sees it. No thank you.
They already ended their Pentax-made DSLR line. They seem more inclined to simply step over the SLR design altogether and compete in the new realm of SCS's exlusively.

Then again, now that they've ditched the Samsung DSLR's, they could acquire the Pentax brand outright and produce a separate line of Pentax-branded APS-C and FF DSLR's. 8^P

06-08-2011, 03:09 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
They already ended their Pentax-made DSLR line. They seem more inclined to simply step over the SLR design altogether and compete in the new realm of SCS's exlusively.

Then again, now that they've ditched the Samsung DSLR's, they could acquire the Pentax brand outright and produce a separate line of Pentax-branded APS-C and FF DSLR's. 8^P
I agree with you. They seem to have an idea of where they want to go. Don't see what Pentax could offer them. That NX lens lineup looks awful tempting. I'll definitely be looking at it next year. I did my camera this year with the X100 and trade up to the K5. I'm about to go through the Kmounts again to whittle them down some more. Next year I had planned on GXR but the NX might be the way to go. You can really get 13 X 19 to 12 x 16 good print size images out of these small cameras. I borrowed an XZ 1 from a friend. Wow that little camera is really amazing.
06-08-2011, 04:48 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I'd immediately return my K-5 for one with a EVF. Because it would be great to have a camera without focusing errors (focusing is done on the sensor itself) and much better metering (again, metering is done on the sensor itself and it will always be better, even with old MF lenses). Finally an EVF is a superb solution for manual focus shooters (what you see is what you get). No more fiddling around with 3rd party ground glass screens and shims. If the EVF camera provides a "focus peaking" feature (it shows what parts of the picture are sharp, in a distinctive color) then there's no going back to a OVF.

OVF was a great solution, but a far better solution is just around the corner. I even think the K-5's successor will be the last Pentax with an OVF and a mirror. Finally small wide angle lenses without the darned retrofocus construction
IMO you make a big mistake by stating EVF means contrast detect.
First, it is already in K7/K5 etc.
Second, EVF doesn't mean CD-AF, Sony SLT is a good example.

Best option is an EOS RT-like solution with hybrid VF. Everybody happy. That's it.
06-08-2011, 11:04 PM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tranzistors Quote
Maybe my sarcasm detector is broken, but isn't EVF in K-5 already?
I mean a true EVF. That, to me, is something different than a LCD on the back of the camera (which is next to useless in bright light). To me, it means an electronic replacement of the current ground glass screen + viewfinder, with the same way of looking into the camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
DSLR's already have EVF's. The concept is to remove an optical finder which is a feature. The main function of a finder is looking, and looking is best done optically; thats why we have glasses, windows, binoculars instead of LCD screens. Seeing the real thing is the perfect solution for seeing the real thing; no need to reinvent the wheel. EVF have their uses - thats why they are included on DSLR's. A camera without optical finder is a camera without an important feature.
Your reasoning is flawed. Of course glasses, windows and binoculars are pretty good as they are in their current optical form. Because the end image is formed in our eyes, and not meant to be recorded. In the case of our cameras, however, the end result is a digital picture. And that's why I don't want to see the real thing. An OVF is next to useless, because what you see is *definitely* not what you'll get. No matter which SLR I use the end result is always somewhat unpredictable because of the extreme discrepancy between the picture on the ground glass screen (which has a deeper DOF) and the recorded picture.

I fail to see why a photographer would not want to see the picture, in real time, as it would be recorded by the camera, including the DOF. It makes shooting so much easier and the cameras so much more reliable and cheaper. Cheaper yes, because a lens would only need a manual diaphragm (it is closed at working f/stop all the time, which also means that focus shift because of stopping down is a thing of the past).

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
If your K5 has focussing errors, shouldn't you return it and have it fixed? I'm kidding of course, but truth is, these camera's focus correctly as it is. Whenever I run into incorrectly focussed images then I myself am the one to blame.

I use manual focus lenses and I don't fiddle around with any screens, glass or shims. Maybe you should quit that and your camera wil focus and meter better?
Actually, and that's no joke, I manual focus a lot of the time (I'd say more than 50% of the time) and I'm pretty good at it. However, even then my hit ratio is less than 50% because the K-5's viewfinder, while very good in its class, is a bloody shame when compared to the old MX or LX. Every time I put my MX to my eye I get tears because I still don't understand why the optical viewfinders were so good back then, and so bad right now...

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
IMO you make a big mistake by stating EVF means contrast detect.
First, it is already in K7/K5 etc.
Second, EVF doesn't mean CD-AF, Sony SLT is a good example.

Best option is an EOS RT-like solution with hybrid VF. Everybody happy. That's it.
Contrast detect AF will eventually be faster than phase detect AF. And, there's no denying that doing metering and AF-ing on the sensor is the best solution to all problems that exist right now. For instance, in the case of my K-5 there are a lot of variables when it comes to autofocusing accuracy:

- the bayonet-sensor distance
- the bayonet-ground glass screen distance
- the bayonet-AF sensor array distance
- focus shift because of stopping down the diaphragm during the shot
- focus shift because of the color temperature of the light

If one of those variables is off then be prepared for lots of focusing headaches... With contrast detection on the sensor, none of these problems do exist.

Again: the OVF was good in its time, but today there are better ways to frame your pictures and focus.

06-09-2011, 01:21 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Actually, and that's no joke, I manual focus a lot of the time (I'd say more than 50% of the time) and I'm pretty good at it. However, even then my hit ratio is less than 50% because the K-5's viewfinder, while very good in its class, is a bloody shame when compared to the old MX or LX. Every time I put my MX to my eye I get tears because I still don't understand why the optical viewfinders were so good back then, and so bad right now...
dont you think .. it cause by the tiny sensor of pentax dslr?, i mean if we comparing it with FF or film.

if the sensor is bigger and off course the OVF will bigger too.. will it change the situation. i mean we can easily focusing manual?

.
06-09-2011, 01:36 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by fearview Quote
dont you think .. it cause by the tiny sensor of pentax dslr?, i mean if we comparing it with FF or film.

if the sensor is bigger and off course the OVF will bigger too.. will it change the situation. i mean we can easily focusing manual?

.
It depends. I also have the Canon EOS 5D (which is a full frame camera) and actually it's not (much) better than the K-5's viewfinder. So it really depends on the implementation of the viewfinder. I think the viewfinders have gotten smaller because nowadays a lot of information is projected in and outside the ground glass screen.
06-09-2011, 10:25 AM   #52
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Another advantage of EVF and CDAF is that if you have a lens that FF at close focusing distances or has other AF anomalies it is not an issue with CDAF. Even with AF micro-adjustment you can't compensate for these types of issues.

I have yet to see an EVF or CDAF that I want more than a good OVF, but they are coming. If Sony has worked out the bugs on the SLT technology (A77) they might have a really compelling camera.

I get the feeling that the reason Pentax has not been introducing a lot of new glass is that they now SDM is not the longterm solution. Just like Olympus users have found when using SWD lenses on M4/3.
06-09-2011, 11:31 AM - 1 Like   #53
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now that I think about it, I think the partnership between Samsung and Pentax ended when Samsung lost interest in Pentax. it's possible that Pentax had offered the company's ownership to Samsung but I guess it wouldn't make sense especially if Samsung wanted something new from Pentax. the biggest obstacle is the old AF system in most of the Pentax lenses except the DA*55 and some 2 or 3 other DA* lenses which run with SDM which is still underperforming compared with other AF systems. the rest are all screwdriven AF. if Samsung bought Pentax, Samsung might have to deal with the screwdrive AF issue. which would hinder their goal of having to build a new camera system with a new AF system and lens line-up to go along with it. besides that, I believe Samsung has all the resources to build or purchase a large sensor camera which Pentax doesn't have. it could be the reason why Pentax never considered an FF system or maybe Samsung never liked Pentax dismissing the idea of a FF. eventhough Hoya now owns Pentax, we still see the dilemma of a future lens development for the Pentax mount. I gotta see what the upcoming Pentax cameras have to offer aside from being mirrorless. although there are rumors of a new lens lineup for those new cameras, we still have to see what those lenses are. if they are worth considering and really good or will they just be another set of budget or overpriced kit lens?

06-09-2011, 12:47 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
It depends. I also have the Canon EOS 5D (which is a full frame camera) and actually it's not (much) better than the K-5's viewfinder. So it really depends on the implementation of the viewfinder. I think the viewfinders have gotten smaller because nowadays a lot of information is projected in and outside the ground glass screen.
Yep. I duscussed thus very issue two days ago with a friend who owns both 5d and 5d mk2.
Yep bigger vf but FF vf are usually not 100% and smaller (relatively of course). That with less DoF makes manual focus more difficult.
He added that 5d mk2 af is crap and 5d af is more reliable (I dunno, never tested).
06-09-2011, 05:16 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yep. I duscussed thus very issue two days ago with a friend who owns both 5d and 5d mk2.
Yep bigger vf but FF vf are usually not 100% and smaller (relatively of course). That with less DoF makes manual focus more difficult.
He added that 5d mk2 af is crap and 5d af is more reliable (I dunno, never tested).
I have been using the 5D for 5+ years now. The VF and build quality are one of the reasons I have been looking at the Sony A900 (excellent VF)..... But Sony is not being very clear about the direction they plan to go with FF and SLT technology may simple be a temporary fix. I started saving for my 5D replacement 4 years ago and when the 5DII came out I kept saving for replacement glass as I would be switching systems. I have accumulated enough for a 645D and some glass. My 5D is still doing its job and I am still looking at different systems. Even though I complain about the 5D build quality it has lasted for over 135K images...... So I guess I should not complain.
06-09-2011, 05:26 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
now that I think about it, I think the partnership between Samsung and Pentax ended when Samsung lost interest in Pentax. it's possible that Pentax had offered the company's ownership to Samsung but I guess it wouldn't make sense especially if Samsung wanted something new from Pentax. the biggest obstacle is the old AF system in most of the Pentax lenses except the DA*55 and some 2 or 3 other DA* lenses which run with SDM which is still underperforming compared with other AF systems. the rest are all screwdriven AF. if Samsung bought Pentax, Samsung might have to deal with the screwdrive AF issue. which would hinder their goal of having to build a new camera system with a new AF system and lens line-up to go along with it. besides that, I believe Samsung has all the resources to build or purchase a large sensor camera which Pentax doesn't have. it could be the reason why Pentax never considered an FF system or maybe Samsung never liked Pentax dismissing the idea of a FF. eventhough Hoya now owns Pentax, we still see the dilemma of a future lens development for the Pentax mount. I gotta see what the upcoming Pentax cameras have to offer aside from being mirrorless. although there are rumors of a new lens lineup for those new cameras, we still have to see what those lenses are. if they are worth considering and really good or will they just be another set of budget or overpriced kit lens?
Samsung is developing a forward thinking system and legacy technologies are an anchor to what Samsung is trying to do. They are developing a completely new system and they don't have to devote resources to legacy comparability.

The NX11 just came out and the NX20 is rumored to be announce in July. Apparently the NX20 will be a step above the NX11 and not a replacement. Better build and more manual controls? New 18MP Samsung sensor? I really never paid much attention to Samsung, but they seem to be the most interesting company in the market right now. They need to work on their menus/controls and their image processing engine is obviously a few generations behind, but they are making fast progress.
06-09-2011, 06:08 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
It depends. I also have the Canon EOS 5D (which is a full frame camera) and actually it's not (much) better than the K-5's viewfinder. So it really depends on the implementation of the viewfinder. I think the viewfinders have gotten smaller because nowadays a lot of information is projected in and outside the ground glass screen.
I at least agree with you. The viewfinders on modern DSLRS are terrible for manual focus. I can't understand why they don't put a split prism like the K1000 or MX. I used a Leica M3 for many years. The camera was extremely accurate when focusing. I find manual focus on the Olympus VF2 and an older lens say the Pentax 50mm F1.7 or the Voigtlander 58mm far easier/more accurate than with the K5. Not sure why. Unfortunately these lenses are rather large/cumbersome on a M 4/3 camera.
06-09-2011, 07:02 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Samsung is developing a forward thinking system and legacy technologies are an anchor to what Samsung is trying to do. They are developing a completely new system and they don't have to devote resources to legacy comparability.

The NX11 just came out and the NX20 is rumored to be announce in July. Apparently the NX20 will be a step above the NX11 and not a replacement. Better build and more manual controls? New 18MP Samsung sensor? I really never paid much attention to Samsung, but they seem to be the most interesting company in the market right now. They need to work on their menus/controls and their image processing engine is obviously a few generations behind, but they are making fast progress.
one of the major things why I never considered the Samsung in the past is because of the lack of lens offering about a year and a half ago. aside from that, although it is one of the first to offer a mirrorless APS-C camera, I find the NX10 to be promising but still needs the necessary tweaking that would make it an ideal system. for me, I find the EVF could need more improvement, AF speed, and sensor improvement. I would also want them to go easy on the AA filter and NR implementation coz it kills a lot of details in the image. adding 2-3 more buttons or dials would be ok but the I-Fn function does it's job nonetheless. I guess we just have to practice getting familiar with that feature.

if the NX20 is really a step above the NX11 not just because it has a higher MP resolution, then that would really be interesting.

btw, I find the built and size of the NX10 and NX11 just fine. the lenses to be used on them fits perfectly for a compact system. so I would prefer if Samsung retains the dimensions.
06-10-2011, 02:53 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Samsung is developing a forward thinking system and legacy technologies are an anchor to what Samsung is trying to do. They are developing a completely new system and they don't have to devote resources to legacy comparability.

The NX11 just came out and the NX20 is rumored to be announce in July. Apparently the NX20 will be a step above the NX11 and not a replacement. Better build and more manual controls? New 18MP Samsung sensor? I really never paid much attention to Samsung, but they seem to be the most interesting company in the market right now. They need to work on their menus/controls and their image processing engine is obviously a few generations behind, but they are making fast progress.
That is sort of a conundrum though. To have to support "Legacy" one has to have a Legacy to support.
06-10-2011, 02:55 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
After departing from Sony for their reckless decisions about Minolta, I shudder at the thought of anyone taking over Pentax. Maybe one generation of good gear to appease the Pentax faithful, as Sony did up to the A700 - then welcome to the world as Samsung sees it. No thank you.
Sony didn't benefit as much by acquiring the Minolta line since the name didn't actually go with it other than Alpha and the alpha symbol. Then there decision making had an impact. However, they do have the only line of af Zeiss glass that I know of.
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