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06-28-2011, 08:41 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
The new PEN's do sound amazing...if the rumors are to be believed. Hard to believe that they've outdone Panasonic in autofocus speed (as well as most DSLR's also). I guess we'll find out on Thursday. Will be interesting to compare the Pen Mini with the Pentax Q. Aside from those 3mp test shots briefly posted on Imaging Resource we haven't seen any photos from the Q, but with a 1/2.3 sensor is there any way the Q can compete with the PEN? The Q may be a touch smaller, but is it enough to worry about? We'll see I guess. Deciding between the E-PL3 and the EP-3 will be tough for some I imagine. It makes little sense to me why Olympus would put a flip out screen on the E-PL3 and not the E-P3. If the E-PL3 really does look exactly like the X-Z1 it will make a great stealth street shooter with it's small size, rotating LCD, and matte black finish.
As someone who shot with an E-3 for a couple of years. I have some what lost faith in Olympus and their ability to deliver. They have been recycling the same 12MP sensor for 3 years now. If this is a new Olympus designed sensor it had better show a marked improvement.

Right now the PEN series is the most interesting mirror-less (if it is released as rumored). We will see what the Samsung NX has to offer, and the Sony NEX-7 should be interesting. Hopefully we will see more lenses like the 12mm f/2.

06-28-2011, 09:30 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
We will see what the Samsung NX has to offer, and the Sony NEX-7 should be interesting. Hopefully we will see more lenses like the 12mm f/2.
The biggest problem Sony has is ok, wonderful sensor, but it doesn't matter if there are no lenses for it. I enjoy adapting lenses to cameras, but I sold my NEX-3 because that was all I was doing with it. The Zeiss 24mm f/2 will be very good I'm sure, but aside from that their lens road map isn't very exciting; and not a single one of their current three lenses is worth buying IMO. Sadly I think it will be at least 2 years before I can consider Sony again, they need to start pumping out lenses, not bodies. Pentax will have a similar problem if they release their own large sensor mount...which is why I hoped they'd either join m4/3's or work a deal with Sony to use the E-mount. I really don't know how Pentax can improve upon either of those mounts.

Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 06-28-2011 at 10:22 AM.
06-28-2011, 01:52 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
However, the real competitors will be enthusiast compacts (like the LX5 or S95). The LX5 almost matches the noise characteristics of the much bigger Olympus FT cameras (same grey noise according to DPR)
Well, DPR is DPR...

DxOMark on the other hand paints somewhat more believable picture.

The absolute dynamic range at the base ISO is indeed better on the LX5 than on Pen EPL2 (reading the DR diagram from right to left indicates that the Olympus seems to waste some of the sensor's potential), though outside of the very deepest shadows the bigger sensor camera is much better at just about everything.

On the other hand, many more consumers do read DPR than DxO...
06-28-2011, 02:18 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Deciding between the E-PL3 and the EP-3 will be tough for some I imagine. It makes little sense to me why Olympus would put a flip out screen on the E-PL3 and not the E-P3.
It's a bizarre choice between flip out LCD on the one side and OLED on the other. Unless they couldn't engineer a flip out OLED?

06-29-2011, 02:06 AM - 1 Like   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aku Ankka Quote
Well, DPR is DPR...

DxOMark on the other hand paints somewhat more believable picture.

The absolute dynamic range at the base ISO is indeed better on the LX5 than on Pen EPL2 (reading the DR diagram from right to left indicates that the Olympus seems to waste some of the sensor's potential), though outside of the very deepest shadows the bigger sensor camera is much better at just about everything.

On the other hand, many more consumers do read DPR than DxO...
Thanks for the cross check.

I agree that DxO draws a more complete picture.

An LX5 or S95 seems to be 2 stops behind an EPL2 (or any µFT) and 3 stops behind a K-5. But the LX5/S95 built-in lenses are f/2.0 and the appropriate peer (14-42) is f/3.5 only which looses another stop. The K-5 kit lens is f/3.5 too. And at least the Leica lens for the LX5 is sharp at f/2.

So, including the bult-in lens (or standard zoom lens) into the picture, the µFT offers are only 1 stop better than enthusiast compacts and 2 stops worse than a K-5. Add to it the missing DR for µFT, and you see why I said enthusiast compacts are the competitors for the Pentax Q.

And against S95/LX5, the price tag of a Pentax Q is a problem ...
06-29-2011, 05:51 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aku Ankka Quote

On the other hand, many more consumers do read DPR than DxO...
Phrased another way...

...many more consumers use JPEG rather than RAW.
06-29-2011, 11:06 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
An LX5 or S95 seems to be 2 stops behind an EPL2 (or any µFT)
actually S95 is much less than 2 stops vs even GH2 and at base ISO even on par...

Panasonic makes very noisy sensors
06-29-2011, 11:10 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
The new PEN's do sound amazing...if the rumors are to be believed. Hard to believe that they've outdone Panasonic in autofocus speed (as well as most DSLR's also).
relevant patent = FOCUS POSITION CONTROL APPARATUS AND ... - Google Patents

only may be w/ certain lenses (like 4 new Olympus lenses 12/2, 45/1.8 and two very dark kit zooms) and in certain conditions...

06-29-2011, 11:18 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
only may be w/ certain lenses (like 4 new Olympus lenses 12/2, 45/1.8 and two very dark kit zooms) and in certain conditions...
Gotta start somewhere. I'm sure they'll be updating their other lenses soon. Besides, if the old ones focus as fast as they do when mounted to the Panasonic GH2 then that should still be fast enough for a lot of people. Heck, I typically don't even have an issue with AF speed with my G1. So I'm not the most demanding AF user in the world.
06-30-2011, 02:30 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
Panasonic makes very noisy sensors
Well, I'd say the G3 is almost in the ballpark of the K-5 if you compare with the new E-P3 samples on dpreview. The E-P3 is even noisier than the E-PL2!
06-30-2011, 06:35 AM   #86
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Well, I'm hoping whatever they do it's available in September (not likely though) I'm off to Barcelona for a couple of weeks at the beginning of October and I'd rather take along something smaller that can use my K lenses than carry my K7
If not I may just bight the bullet and grab an X100 which would cover 90+% of my needs on vacation in a city (maybe not wide enough for some shots though)
06-30-2011, 07:34 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Well, I'm hoping whatever they do it's available in September (not likely though) I'm off to Barcelona for a couple of weeks at the beginning of October and I'd rather take along something smaller that can use my K lenses than carry my K7.
Realistically speaking, how much smaller could a mirrorless K body with folded optics really be? Can anyone rough out the savings in depth based on the dimensions that the APS-C and the light path need?
06-30-2011, 07:51 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Well, I'd say the G3 is almost in the ballpark of the K-5 if you compare with the new E-P3 samples on dpreview. The E-P3 is even noisier than the E-PL2!
I didn't see that at all. I think the E-P3 looks great up until ISO1600, then it starts to fall apart. In fact I think it looks better than the G3 until you get to ISO1600. Of course some of that I'm sure is due to my preference for Olympus' color processing, which is still the best in the business IMO. But for a little perspective, this shows just how good cameras have gotten:
P6160017: dpreview review samples: Galleries: Digital Photography Review

That portrait is taken at ISO3200. That could still be printed very large, probably up to 11x14. Based on what I've read about the AF speed and from what I've seen from sample photos; If you miss shots with an E-P3, unless you are the most demanding low light sports photographer around, then you have no one to blame but yourself. Then of course there's the fact that the E-P3 has built in shake reduction. Combine that with the Panny/Leica 25mm and you'll have a wonderful low light camera.

The bottom line is it's a great time to be a photographer. We have great options from virtually every company covering almost the entire spectrum. You'd have to go out of your way to make a bad choice these days.
06-30-2011, 05:27 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
The bottom line is it's a great time to be a photographer. We have great options from virtually every company covering almost the entire spectrum. You'd have to go out of your way to make a bad choice these days.
These days I think the bad choice is simply spending too much time being unhappy with the gear you have.
07-01-2011, 03:54 AM   #90
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QuoteQuote:
That was about the NC-1, not Q which I didn't anticipate at that time. Which would be another sign that the Q was developed in parallel by the P&S team.

I think the NC-1 was delayed by the earthquake and Q launch. So, if not spring, autumn will be the next likely release date.

The Pentax Q and the Pentax NC-1 are just different names for the same camera:

2011 Pentax roadmap reveals no second mirrorless camera but I still believe | Photo Rumors
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