So what's the second 2011 Pentax mirrorless?

ogl · 07-05-2011, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by uccemebug

Nice find.

have a look at GXR + A12 28/2.5 module
113mm × 70mm × 56mm (when mounted on the GXR body)

Ricoh releases A12 28mm equiv. GXR module: Digital Photography Review

Ricoh has their own stabilisation by sensor-shift, by the way...

eddie1960 · 07-05-2011, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by ogl

have a look at GXR + A12 28/2.5 module
113mm × 70mm × 56mm (when mounted on the GXR body)

Ricoh releases A12 28mm equiv. GXR module: Digital Photography Review

Ricoh has their own stabilisation by sensor-shift, by the way...

This is a very tempting model for me (and not much more money than a Q
Popflash Photo sells a kit for $916 (mind you by the time you add a VF and a case etc you are closer to the base price of the X100)

ogl · 07-05-2011, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

This is a very tempting model for me (and not much more money than a Q
Popflash Photo sells a kit for $916 (mind you by the time you add a VF and a case etc you are closer to the base price of the X100)

I've downloaded some DNG from GXR + A12 28/2.5 - lens is rather sharp - straight from f/2.5. Good colours.

eddie1960 · 07-05-2011, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by ogl

I've downloaded some DNG from GXR + A12 28/2.5 - lens is rather sharp - straight from f/2.5. Good colours.

it really does look like a nice street / walk around camera
maybe not good enough in low light
but neither are any of my current cameras (no K5 yet)

uccemebug · 07-05-2011, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by ogl

have a look at GXR + A12 28/2.5 module
113mm × 70mm × 56mm (when mounted on the GXR body)

Ricoh releases A12 28mm equiv. GXR module: Digital Photography Review

Ricoh has their own stabilisation by sensor-shift, by the way...

Man, they weren't fooling around with that design: "Its 18.3mm F2.5 lens (28mm-equivalent) employs an exotic nine element / six group design, including two aspherical elements, one special low-dispersion glass element, and several high-refraction-ratio elements, promising high image quality across the frame."

So this is now a GXR thread. 8^D

mgibeault · 07-06-2011, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by steve1307

In any case An APS-C with Kmount lenses wouldnt be much thinner in the body than a DSLR just because of the registration distance.

Pentax Q - 9.2mm
Sony NEX - 18mm
M 4/3 - 20mm
Leica M - 27.8mm
Pentax K - 45.46mm

My guess is that it won't be a problem because there won't be any focus (and auto focus mechanism) needed!
If Pentax was in talks with Lytro to use this technology?
All these considerations would be irrelevant and they could design a nice compact body with an APS-C sensor, like say a X100, with a K-mount and compatibility with all current Pentax lenses.
No autofocus to worry about would greatly simplify the body and future lenses.
And when Ricoh heard about this they couldn't resist and made the deal.

eddie1960 · 07-06-2011, 07:54 AM

The idea of the Lytro sensor. it'll be interesting to see if they can ever get it from the lab to actual production
the details of how it works with existing lenses is a little sketchy mind you

RioRico · 07-06-2011, 01:23 PM

From what I've read, Lytro depends on massive overkill -- a 40mpx sensor to produce a 2mpx image, something like that. I think we'll need a few more Moore's Law cycles before it hits WalMart shelves.

falconeye · 07-06-2011, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

From what I've read, Lytro depends on massive overkill -- a 40mpx sensor to produce a 2mpx image, something like that. I think we'll need a few more Moore's Law cycles before it hits WalMart shelves.

RioRico, thank You express some scepticism.

The current (and future...) world market leader for light field cameras (happens to be a German company with little to no press work to date, named Raytrix) published a recent article about the continued hype around this former Stanford student (aka Lytro).

It is a recommended read

-> Can Lytro bring light-field cameras to the masses?

BTW, the problem of the trade-off between resolution and refocus is NOT Moore's law. Many journalists just don't get it. The trade off is a fundamental property of the Heisenberg law, i.e., governed by diffraction. Which means that there is a limit to refocussable resolution with a given amunt of glass. Whatever be the amount of pixels...

I don't see lightfield cameras to have any impact for us. But they will allow better mobile phone cameras.

**Aristophanes** · 07-07-2011, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

BTW, the problem of the trade-off between resolution and refocus is NOT Moore's law. Many journalists just don't get it. The trade off is a fundamental property of the Heisenberg law, i.e., governed by diffraction. Which means that there is a limit to refocussable resolution with a given amunt of glass. Whatever be the amount of pixels...

That darn glass. It always gets in the way especially when you want to see through it!

gazonk · 07-07-2011, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

That darn glass. It always gets in the way especially when you want to see through it!

It always amuses me when technology meets very hard limits. Like all the times when internet through geostationary satellites was sold as The Next Big Thing - despite the fact that for very interactive services, it would always be rubbish because of the almost 40000 km distance to the satellites...

mgibeault · 07-13-2011, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

It is a recommended read

-> Can Lytro bring light-field cameras to the masses?

Interesting read indeed, but nothing new either.
It all depends on the lenses manufacturing. If they're aiming for several thousand units a year, the prices can go down a lot (from €5000 to €500 easily) if you consider that Raytrix sells them as laboratory instruments.

falconeye · 07-13-2011, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by mgibeault

If they're aiming for several thousand units a year, the prices can go down a lot (from €5000 to €500 easily) if you consider that Raytrix sells them as laboratory instruments.

I thought the read made it clear. It is laboratory equipment. The general audience (like us) would always prefer normal lenses over lightfield lenses. Because the former deliver so much better image quality. Which is why the latter are rare and therefore, expensive. Not the other way round.

The only foreseeable exception are mobile phone lenses where arrays are able to deliver improved image quality. Not better than a dSLR but better than todays mobile phones.

lithos · 07-18-2011, 08:18 AM - **1 Like**

That Lytro writeup of their sensors almost seems like they're taking the piss out of their audience - "You want this camera because, let's face it, you're too much of an to grasp basic photographic principals, but you're enough of an arsehole to play this off as being some sort of inherent trait of artists."

07-06-2011, 07:16 AM	#126
mgibeault New Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montreal Posts: 6	Registration distance is not a problem Originally posted by steve1307 In any case An APS-C with Kmount lenses wouldnt be much thinner in the body than a DSLR just because of the registration distance. Pentax Q - 9.2mm Sony NEX - 18mm M 4/3 - 20mm Leica M - 27.8mm Pentax K - 45.46mm My guess is that it won't be a problem because there won't be any focus (and auto focus mechanism) needed! If Pentax was in talks with Lytro to use this technology? All these considerations would be irrelevant and they could design a nice compact body with an APS-C sensor, like say a X100, with a K-mount and compatibility with all current Pentax lenses. No autofocus to worry about would greatly simplify the body and future lenses. And when Ricoh heard about this they couldn't resist and made the deal.

07-06-2011, 03:38 PM	#129
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by RioRico From what I've read, Lytro depends on massive overkill -- a 40mpx sensor to produce a 2mpx image, something like that. I think we'll need a few more Moore's Law cycles before it hits WalMart shelves. RioRico, thank You express some scepticism. The current (and future...) world market leader for light field cameras (happens to be a German company with little to no press work to date, named Raytrix) published a recent article about the continued hype around this former Stanford student (aka Lytro). It is a recommended read -> Can Lytro bring light-field cameras to the masses? BTW, the problem of the trade-off between resolution and refocus is NOT Moore's law. Many journalists just don't get it. The trade off is a fundamental property of the Heisenberg law, i.e., governed by diffraction. Which means that there is a limit to refocussable resolution with a given amunt of glass. Whatever be the amount of pixels... I don't see lightfield cameras to have any impact for us. But they will allow better mobile phone cameras. Last edited by falconeye; 07-06-2011 at 03:56 PM.

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07-05-2011, 08:20 AM	#121
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by uccemebug Nice find. have a look at GXR + A12 28/2.5 module 113mm × 70mm × 56mm (when mounted on the GXR body) Ricoh releases A12 28mm equiv. GXR module: Digital Photography Review Ricoh has their own stabilisation by sensor-shift, by the way...

07-05-2011, 08:45 AM	#122
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by ogl have a look at GXR + A12 28/2.5 module 113mm × 70mm × 56mm (when mounted on the GXR body) Ricoh releases A12 28mm equiv. GXR module: Digital Photography Review Ricoh has their own stabilisation by sensor-shift, by the way... This is a very tempting model for me (and not much more money than a Q Popflash Photo sells a kit for $916 (mind you by the time you add a VF and a case etc you are closer to the base price of the X100)

07-05-2011, 08:50 AM	#123
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by eddie1960 This is a very tempting model for me (and not much more money than a Q Popflash Photo sells a kit for $916 (mind you by the time you add a VF and a case etc you are closer to the base price of the X100) I've downloaded some DNG from GXR + A12 28/2.5 - lens is rather sharp - straight from f/2.5. Good colours.

07-05-2011, 08:53 AM	#124
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by ogl I've downloaded some DNG from GXR + A12 28/2.5 - lens is rather sharp - straight from f/2.5. Good colours. it really does look like a nice street / walk around camera maybe not good enough in low light but neither are any of my current cameras (no K5 yet)

07-05-2011, 09:47 AM	#125
uccemebug Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962 Original Poster	Originally posted by ogl have a look at GXR + A12 28/2.5 module 113mm × 70mm × 56mm (when mounted on the GXR body) Ricoh releases A12 28mm equiv. GXR module: Digital Photography Review Ricoh has their own stabilisation by sensor-shift, by the way... Man, they weren't fooling around with that design: "Its 18.3mm F2.5 lens (28mm-equivalent) employs an exotic nine element / six group design, including two aspherical elements, one special low-dispersion glass element, and several high-refraction-ratio elements, promising high image quality across the frame." So this is now a GXR thread. 8^D

07-06-2011, 07:54 AM	#127
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	The idea of the Lytro sensor. it'll be interesting to see if they can ever get it from the lab to actual production the details of how it works with existing lenses is a little sketchy mind you

07-06-2011, 01:23 PM	#128
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	From what I've read, Lytro depends on massive overkill -- a 40mpx sensor to produce a 2mpx image, something like that. I think we'll need a few more Moore's Law cycles before it hits WalMart shelves.

07-07-2011, 05:43 AM	#130
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by falconeye BTW, the problem of the trade-off between resolution and refocus is NOT Moore's law. Many journalists just don't get it. The trade off is a fundamental property of the Heisenberg law, i.e., governed by diffraction. Which means that there is a limit to refocussable resolution with a given amunt of glass. Whatever be the amount of pixels... That darn glass. It always gets in the way especially when you want to see through it!

07-07-2011, 06:05 AM	#131
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Aristophanes That darn glass. It always gets in the way especially when you want to see through it! It always amuses me when technology meets very hard limits. Like all the times when internet through geostationary satellites was sold as The Next Big Thing - despite the fact that for very interactive services, it would always be rubbish because of the almost 40000 km distance to the satellites...

07-13-2011, 09:32 AM	#132
mgibeault New Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montreal Posts: 6	Originally posted by falconeye It is a recommended read -> Can Lytro bring light-field cameras to the masses? Interesting read indeed, but nothing new either. It all depends on the lenses manufacturing. If they're aiming for several thousand units a year, the prices can go down a lot (from €5000 to €500 easily) if you consider that Raytrix sells them as laboratory instruments.

07-13-2011, 02:30 PM	#133
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by mgibeault If they're aiming for several thousand units a year, the prices can go down a lot (from €5000 to €500 easily) if you consider that Raytrix sells them as laboratory instruments. I thought the read made it clear. It is laboratory equipment. The general audience (like us) would always prefer normal lenses over lightfield lenses. Because the former deliver so much better image quality. Which is why the latter are rare and therefore, expensive. Not the other way round. The only foreseeable exception are mobile phone lenses where arrays are able to deliver improved image quality. Not better than a dSLR but better than todays mobile phones.

07-18-2011, 08:18 AM - 1 Like	#134
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	That Lytro writeup of their sensors almost seems like they're taking the piss out of their audience - "You want this camera because, let's face it, you're too much of an to grasp basic photographic principals, but you're enough of an arsehole to play this off as being some sort of inherent trait of artists."