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07-13-2011, 01:02 PM   #661
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I think the complete opposite.

Ricoh bought Pentax imaging precisely because the GSX is a no-sales product with very high price tag and production costs in a from factor anathema to the conservative photographic industry. The whole modular "buy a lens, get a sensor" biz model is wasteful, unnecessary design overkill.

Ricoh is nowhere near being a "major player" until its sales numbers go somewhere, which they have not. In fact, they are virtually non-existent. The Ricoh GSX doesn't even have a group on Flickr to itself, and only a few hundred souls even post anything related to Ricoh, with months of inactivity between posts. The GSX has generated literally no industry buzz, nor have any of Ricoh's other models, especially outside of Japan.

I think Ricoh bought Pentax Imaging to revitalize the company's entire camera line and literally replace the Ricoh camera group lock, stock, and barrel. The Q and the GSX go in completely different design directions. The GSX is financially, technically, and aesthetically noncompetitive. This takeover is no marriage of Ricoh cameras with Pentax imaging, but a takeover by the latter's concepts of the former's prowess in at least getting its products recognized by the mainstream, generating some industry interest.

Prediction: RIP GSX and most other Ricoh models. All Ricoh tech integrated into the Pentax Imaging brand and design concepts.

the rest of the ricoh line i would agree, but the GSX will start coming into itself with the M Module. the users of LTM and M mount products are itching for an inexpensive digital solution, the side benefit is with an adapter you can use almost any lens on the m module. It will never rival a Kr or even a K5 for volume, but it's an unserviced niche and the GSX tooling is already in place. manage it through small limited runs and it works (it's not like it's cheap) the reviews have in general been pretty good actually. the m module of course we have to wait and see the review, but it definitely got me paying attention
Flickr BTW is not always a good measurement of camera popularity, it doesn't for instance measure film rangefinders as there is no standard exif to capture the info. but if you look around there are a ton of LTM and M mount users (lot's of whom may also want to mount their OM lenses for instance via an adapter - never fails to amaze me how many OM users are also RF guys) Like I said Niche market, but one that looks to be ripe for mining
Leica has plans to announce a APS-C MILC as well but i would be very surprised if it cost anything less than $3000, i'll bet the GSX is less than half that with the M module

07-13-2011, 01:38 PM   #662
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The GXR is so hopeless that people don't even know its name and keep calling it GSX.

Last edited by juu; 07-13-2011 at 02:30 PM.
07-13-2011, 02:09 PM   #663
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Ricoh bought Pentax imaging precisely because the GSX is a no-sales product with very high price tag and production costs in a from factor anathema to the conservative photographic industry.

The Ricoh GSX doesn't even have a group on Flickr to itself, and only a few hundred souls even post anything related to Ricoh, with months of inactivity between posts. The GSX has generated literally no industry buzz, nor have any of Ricoh's other models, especially outside of Japan.

Prediction: RIP GSX and most other Ricoh models. All Ricoh tech integrated into the Pentax Imaging brand and design concepts.
Don't know about all this, but not very active in "our' world is very likely. I looked into that on DPR and compared it to K-x wich came to market just a little earlier



QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
The GXR is so hopeless that people doesn't even know its name and keep calling it GSX.
And not even noticing
07-13-2011, 03:21 PM   #664
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
The GXR is so hopeless that people don't even know its name and keep calling it GSX.


07-13-2011, 03:42 PM   #665
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
The GXR is so hopeless that people don't even know its name and keep calling it GSX.
At least I corrected myself right away. (Cf the thread WILL GSX DEVOUR THE WORLD?)

But a thought occurs. It's called GXR because the modules use a GX sensor, right? And if that sensor is replaced, then why call it GX-R(icoh) or GX-P(entax) or GX-anything any more?

My prediction: The 3-part base.body + sensor.module + interchangeable.lens model will survive, rebranded as, I dunno, UP (Universal Pentax) or something. No, not PU! No, not Pentax Modular System (PMS)! But something to distance it from the 2-part base.body + lensor model, which I agree is a luzer. That 3-part model is IMHO the closest we'll see to the digital-film fantasy. To change/upgrade sensor quality, just swap modules, not cameras.

GSX forever! Er, I mean GXS. Er, I mean GXP. Er, I mean GX-whatever. Wotta lousy name!
07-13-2011, 03:47 PM   #666
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I honestly think this is because of the Fuji's cool retro look vs the Ricoh's utilitarian styling.
Men make choices on purchases (among other things) based on looks. 8^)

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Ricoh bought Pentax imaging precisely because the GSX is a no-sales product with very high price tag and production costs in a from factor anathema to the conservative photographic industry. The whole modular "buy a lens, get a sensor" biz model is wasteful, unnecessary design overkill.
I agree with you except for the "conservative photographic industry" bit.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Ricoh is nowhere near being a "major player" until its sales numbers go somewhere, which they have not.
Correct. And yet, the camera market seems to be in rapid transition and while the combined market share of Ricoh and Pentax remains marginal they have between them strong ability to innovate and as you point out Pentax brings a strong ability not only for appeal to the market but in low cost products (and I suspect a lower-than-industry-average cost of production). Technical innovation isn't always enough, but with a strong focus on user experience there are many ways that Ricoh can use technical innovation to be disruptive.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Prediction: RIP GSX and most other Ricoh models. All Ricoh tech integrated into the Pentax Imaging brand and design concepts.
My counter-predictions: Ricoh's going to be the first of the Japanese manufacturers to grasp that sharing is key to the success of small systems; some form of GXR will serve as the cross-pollinating platform that connects the Q and K mounts; the Q platform will (only?) take off if Ricoh can a) get the sharing right and b) land a major Japanese celebrity endorsement that brings it fully into the sexy mainstream.
07-13-2011, 03:58 PM   #667
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Tried the GSX guys?
07-13-2011, 04:25 PM   #668
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QuoteOriginally posted by fikkser Quote
Tried the GSX guys?
GSX:
Global Sports eXtreme
Global Service eXchange
GasCo Energy (AMEX)
Suzuki motocycles
an NYC rock band
a VMware server

I ain't tried none of'em.

07-13-2011, 05:21 PM   #669
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
The GXR is so hopeless that people don't even know its name and keep calling it GSX.
Hah! That was just my auto-complete spell-checker on from some old stock I was probably following.

RIP for GXR if that makes you happy.

It's too expensive to make and market. It totally failed and Ricoh's Plan B was to buy something that worked: Pentax Imaging.

You know what? It was GasCo, because I worked on an offshore natural gas development some time ago. Weird...and funny. Hate those TLA's.

And yes, the photography industry is conservative. Look at the gnashing over video. The orgasms over the styling of the Fuji X100. The comparisons of an OVF to the Oympus OM-1 from 1971. The fawning over how the K-5 wheel clicks better than the 1980 LX.....and so on.

The Ricoh is just odd. It does not fit in. No one gets it. No amount of marketing can overcome that. Changing lens and sensor as one has no real advantage in function save in a dust storm, and a huge disadvantage in price.

I look at it and think: "Someone messed up a spreadsheet."

Last edited by Aristophanes; 07-13-2011 at 05:32 PM.
07-13-2011, 09:10 PM - 1 Like   #670
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote

The Ricoh is just odd. It does not fit in. No one gets it. No amount of marketing can overcome that. Changing lens and sensor as one has no real advantage in function save in a dust storm, and a huge disadvantage in price.

I look at it and think: "Someone messed up a spreadsheet."
i have a different view.

placing the lens and sensor into 1 sealed module is advantageous where form factor is concerned - it allows Ricoh to match a small sensor to a zoom lens, and a big sensor to a prime lens, thereby maintaining a small package in the entire range of GXR modules.

certainly, the IQ of pix shot with the 28-300 S10 module will not match the performance of a DSLR using an equivalent lens but consider the size difference - size matters and not everyone wants to lug a DSLR everywhere they go.

now, compare the IQ of pix shot with the 50mm A12 module with an APS-C sensor with a DA35 F2.4 and consider once again, the difference in size between the GXR and a DSLR.

to achieve the same versatility with an alternative setup, we may need a superzoom PNS and a NEX, or a DSLR with a superzoom and a prime. These combinations will roughly max out the capacity of a hadley pro.

a GXR with these 2 modules can fit neatly in half the space.

it is a very versatile and well thought out product - it is not a mirrorless, interchangeable lens system. it is a modular camera system.

good marketing can really make it a winner.
07-13-2011, 10:31 PM   #671
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The Ricoh is just odd. It does not fit in. No one gets it. No amount of marketing can overcome that.
That's not quite true. In his GXR review Thom Hogan writes
As I noted, I like it better than carrying a D3100 around with a few prime lenses.
From other parts in the review it appears that he will keep a personal copy of the camera.

Steve Huff's review is very enthusiastic. He loved the results from the 28mm and 50mm modules and prefers the Ricoh GXR over a Pentax K-5.

I agree the pricing is a problem, but the system certainly has its appeal, in particular, if they come out with more mount adapters (e.g., a K-mount module).

I regard it as a missed opportunity that the camera body and lens modules aren't weather sealed. The sensor and lens are combined in a sealed package already and it would have made the ultimate weather-proof system, if you could have used the camera in pouring rain and even swap lenses while exposing camera body and lens modules to the rain.
07-14-2011, 01:12 AM - 1 Like   #672
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GXR is the worst case of forced obsolescence ever. Throw out good lenses because the sensor is outdated? Okay. At least with M- and K- mount MF modules it would have some place in the world.
07-14-2011, 02:37 AM   #673
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Crap. Why do browsers not remember what I typed/go back when I press the return key?!

Suddently I quite like the idea of the GXR. The 24-72 module gives you a 1/1.7" sensor with a decent lens (24mm!), and it is competitively priced (Canon S95, G12, Panasonic LX5, ...), including the body. If the M mount module is competitively priced too, you would get something like the LX5 AND the NEX. While saving space, since the modules are not as big as the equivalent cameras. And M mount lenses are sweet... not too big for such a camera, high quality, old. Also, adapters for K mount perhaps.
07-14-2011, 03:55 AM   #674
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
And yes, the photography industry is conservative. Look at the gnashing over video. The orgasms over the styling of the Fuji X100. The comparisons of an OVF to the Oympus OM-1 from 1971. The fawning over how the K-5 wheel clicks better than the 1980 LX.....and so on.
And yet from what I saw in Japan, the first people to buy the new mirrorless systems were 50-60 year old men. People are interested in the new alternatives.

Ricoh's invested in Pentax in the midst of developing the GXR-based system. A lot of people complain that Hoya didn't produce the ___ they were looking for, but they made a competent and profitable business out of the Pentax unit and now Ricoh is in a good position to run with it and their GXR idea.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Steve Huff's review is very enthusiastic.
Same at TOP (price aside).
07-14-2011, 04:34 AM   #675
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I believe the GXR with a prime module is priced similarly to an FX100, with comparable quality and more utility, because you can keep the GXR body and add modules.

I wasn't happy with a sensor and lens in the same module either, but with the M-mount the Ricoh is suddenly getting some attention. I'm extremely interested to see how they marry this product to the Pentax line.

Last edited by audiobomber; 07-14-2011 at 06:06 AM.
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