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07-06-2011, 11:11 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
Many moons ago I managed a consumer electronics store. Camcorders were, of course, a mainstay of our business. This was when VHS was still king (but after the 2-piece units) and 8mm was beginning to make some inroads. There were only a handful of manufacturers, but three or four times that many brand names. I remember CR coming out with reviews of a Panasonic model and another brand that escapes me at the moment. They loved the Panasonic and buried the other. Thing is, of course, they were exactly the same unit. Panasonic (Matsushita) had made them both, and, in this case, the other brand hadn't even bothered to change any of the button locations, functions, or anything. It was literally just a re-badged Panasonic. That was an eye-opening moment for all of us in the store. Luckily for us, the Panasonic had a higher price (and higher margin), so we used that review to sell the crap out of 'em, even though we knew you could buy the same unit for less. Sorry if that offends some people, but that is reality when you have salespeople trying to make a living. Besides, we weren't steering them to buy an inferior product, and they were happy to pay the premium to get one that CR had recommended.

The moral of the story is to take ALL reviews with a grain of salt. Not saying that there aren't some good ones, but don't take any one of them as gospel.
I remember that. I sold a lot of Pana camcorders (VHS and SVHS and later the VHSC) once Hi8 came along Sony/Canon accounted for 85% of my sales and Pana/JVC/the rest for the other 15%
Mini DV was the Great equalizer for brands since they were now on a common format My Canon Sales jumped and so did my Pana both at the expense of Sony

07-06-2011, 11:37 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
Many moons ago I managed a consumer electronics store. Camcorders were, of course, a mainstay of our business. This was when VHS was still king (but after the 2-piece units) and 8mm was beginning to make some inroads. There were only a handful of manufacturers, but three or four times that many brand names. I remember CR coming out with reviews of a Panasonic model and another brand that escapes me at the moment. They loved the Panasonic and buried the other. Thing is, of course, they were exactly the same unit. Panasonic (Matsushita) had made them both, and, in this case, the other brand hadn't even bothered to change any of the button locations, functions, or anything. It was literally just a re-badged Panasonic. That was an eye-opening moment for all of us in the store. Luckily for us, the Panasonic had a higher price (and higher margin), so we used that review to sell the crap out of 'em, even though we knew you could buy the same unit for less. Sorry if that offends some people, but that is reality when you have salespeople trying to make a living. Besides, we weren't steering them to buy an inferior product, and they were happy to pay the premium to get one that CR had recommended.

The moral of the story is to take ALL reviews with a grain of salt. Not saying that there aren't some good ones, but don't take any one of them as gospel.
You say when VHS was king, it was only king by choice of a few people (who had a lot of influence sadly). But VCC was way, way, way superior to VHS in quality. But as it shows, what is superior, doesnīt mean it will last. It has to do with who does suport a system. So the K-5 is a very good camera, better than many competitors. But sadly, that doesnīt have to mean alot
07-06-2011, 11:40 AM   #18
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VHS was King but Beta was always the better format (dumb ass marketing and licensing on Sony's part)
07-06-2011, 12:22 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
You say when VHS was king, it was only king by choice of a few people (who had a lot of influence sadly). But VCC was way, way, way superior to VHS in quality. But as it shows, what is superior, doesnīt mean it will last. It has to do with who does suport a system. So the K-5 is a very good camera, better than many competitors. But sadly, that doesnīt have to mean alot
VHS was king of sales, but we did our best to convert as many folks as we could to 8mm, both because it was superior and because we made more money on 'em. In fact, mine was the only store in the company that sold more 8mm (or Hi8) than VHS.

BTW, you can thank the porn "industry" in large part for VHS beating Beta. I have read some interesting studies about that.

07-06-2011, 12:50 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
VHS was king of sales, but we did our best to convert as many folks as we could to 8mm, both because it was superior and because we made more money on 'em. In fact, mine was the only store in the company that sold more 8mm (or Hi8) than VHS.

BTW, you can thank the porn "industry" in large part for VHS beating Beta. I have read some interesting studies about that.
I know, just didnīt want to use that word in this forum. Thatīs also the reason why blue-ray won over HD-dvd
07-06-2011, 12:53 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
VHS was king of sales, but we did our best to convert as many folks as we could to 8mm, both because it was superior and because we made more money on 'em. In fact, mine was the only store in the company that sold more 8mm (or Hi8) than VHS.

BTW, you can thank the porn "industry" in large part for VHS beating Beta. I have read some interesting studies about that.
From a home vcr Porn did put VHS over the top

once 8mm came along up here in Canada it really killed vhs camcorder market , and retained that when vhs battled back with vhsc by offering longer record times at higher quality
07-06-2011, 12:58 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
BTW, you can thank the porn "industry" in large part for VHS beating Beta. I have read some interesting studies about that.
Before VHS, was RCA's CED (Capacitance Electronic Disc) system. 12-inch platters inside heavy cases, spinning at 300 RPM with almost-NTSC quality and even stereo sound. Were zillions of discs of fine films, all (I think) pressed by RCA -- but few with naked people, none of them, er, active. Came Beta and VHS, and CED died quickly, because now people could film each other naked and, er doing stuff. Pre-recorded films were also released on Beta and VHS, but gee whiz, Sony's licensing didn't allow films of, er, active naked people. VHS wasn't controlled by one firm like CED (RCA) and Beta (Sony), so films featuring, er, active naked people, could be and were widely distributed on VHS. The rest is history.

A footnote to history: France launched the first widespread public-access computer network called MINITEL in 1982. Yes, long before the Web. And it crawled along... until people began putting sexually explicit material online. Then MiniTel BOOMED! Imagine that... In other news, it's reported that a long-ago genius of a used car dealer revolutionized advertising by scrawling SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX all over an ad for the usual lemons. It ran in a local newspaper. Sales exploded. And the lesson from that car dealer, from MiniTel, from VHS, is obvious: SEX SELLS. Prudery doesn't.
07-06-2011, 01:32 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote

A footnote to history: France launched the first widespread public-access computer network called MINITEL in 1982. Yes, long before the Web. And it crawled along... until people began putting sexually explicit material online. Then MiniTel BOOMED! Imagine that...
I was just talking about Minitel last night. No kidding. I used to follow the Tour de France via Minitel - they shipped me a floppy disk of the software which I then installed on my Apple Mac II and used the 2400 baud modem to log onto Minitel

Now back to our programming...

07-06-2011, 03:06 PM   #24
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Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 07-06-2011 at 04:17 PM. Reason: copyright concern
07-06-2011, 03:13 PM   #25
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I just look at the real world samples shown here and decide.
07-06-2011, 03:29 PM   #26
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Interesting that the K-r got a "best buy" recommendation.

I do agree that the Pentax bodies lag the others in pop up flash exposures, but it's debatable how important that is.

Their video criteria is nuts "macro capability considered"

It's pretty funny how the rebel viewfinder is rated as better than the K-5 view finder, in fact the 7D viewfinder is the best of all those and it supposedly lags the rebel too

Last edited by twitch; 07-06-2011 at 03:35 PM.
07-06-2011, 04:05 PM   #27
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Its kind of odd that the K-5 and K-7 are virtually tied at 68 on the overall score. That shows that who ever reviewed this must have based in on the Wombat Guy on youtube. This strongly suggest that their photography people don't know their butts from a warm biscuit.
07-06-2011, 04:44 PM   #28
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I don't read them anymore. Once had a subscription, years ago, but question the credibility of any organization, being an expert on everything.

Think CR should have an outside organization assess their assessment procedures and publish their findings.

This is not an uncommon, companies and organizations go through this process.

Has CR ever been assessed by an outside accreditation organization ? Just having an assessment organization 'assure' users and potential users that their system is ok...doesn't cut it.

They as any assessment organization need to convince me that they are a good and effective assessment tool, before I'm willing to accept their advice. I'm spending significant money on a product and I appreciate advice. But I need to be convinced first, that any advice I accept is the best.

I wouldn't use ...any... one assessment as the be all and end all of assessments.

Last edited by lesmore49; 07-06-2011 at 05:04 PM.
07-06-2011, 06:06 PM - 1 Like   #29
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I hope they reviewed the essentials: facial recognition, scene modes, art filters and the zoom range of the kit zoom.
07-06-2011, 06:21 PM   #30
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Anyone still remembers Yashica auto focus SLRs? I recall Consumer Reports picked one of them (I think it was the 230-AF) as consumer's choice a year AFTER Kyocera had announced that it would drop the Yashica brand from SLR market.
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