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07-08-2011, 12:49 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Nope. A bad idea no matter who joins the crowd. Did I mention it's a bad idea?
What if Nokia builds a smartphone that runs on iOS and accept q mount lenses?

Don't say, "that is not smart."

07-08-2011, 01:23 AM   #17
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That is not smart.
07-08-2011, 03:45 AM   #18
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It's still all speculation (thankfully). But since the only obvious connection (to me) between Nikon and Pentax is their use of Sony APS sensors, I wonder if this could be in part Sony's doing. Perhaps this came about because Pentax and Nikon went to Sony for chips for smaller mirrorless systems, and Sony offered the 1/2.33" chip so that the Pentax and Nikon systems would not directly compete with NEX.
07-08-2011, 04:04 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
It's still all speculation (thankfully). But since the only obvious connection (to me) between Nikon and Pentax is their use of Sony APS sensors, I wonder if this could be in part Sony's doing. Perhaps this came about because Pentax and Nikon went to Sony for chips for smaller mirrorless systems, and Sony offered the 1/2.33" chip so that the Pentax and Nikon systems would not directly compete with NEX.
I'd like to think that Sony is more open-minded than that. Here's a more charitable scenario: Sony has learnt from its previous debacles with Beta and the memory stick, and is now happy to function more like Intel, i.e. providing the basic technology for an entire ecosystem.

In this scenario, if Pentax and Nikon are collaborating on a common MILC mount, then the format of this mount is driven more by their own product planning than by Sony's offerings.

Having said all that, I have no idea if my optimism is well-founded ... but I truly think that this would be the smartest strategy for Sony. Sony should seek to dominate the sensor market, and let the individual camera makers fight amongst themselves with different packaging of Sony's base technologies.


Last edited by asw66; 07-08-2011 at 05:52 AM. Reason: typo
07-08-2011, 04:18 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
I'd like to think that Sony is more open-minded than that. Here's a more charitable scenario: Sony has learnt from its previous debacles with Beta and the memory stick, and is now happy to function more like Intel, i.e. providing the basic technology for an entire ecosystem.
FYI: Sony Semiconductor (the maker of the sensors) is not the same company as the Sony which makes cameras. So indeed, Sony Semiconductor is free to sell sensors to anyone who wants to buy them. This does of course not include sensors which are made on order according to certain specifications. So if Pentax wants a FF sensor based on the technology used in the K-5's sensor, they can order it as long as they want to pay for it
07-08-2011, 06:18 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
FYI: Sony Semiconductor (the maker of the sensors) is not the same company as the Sony which makes cameras. So indeed, Sony Semiconductor is free to sell sensors to anyone who wants to buy them.
That's a good reminder and a valuable point. But .. I wonder how free the different Sony units really are. The media unit made life hard on its electronics unit for years by imposing all of the insane DRM stuff (that, for instance, killed MD).
07-08-2011, 06:30 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
That's a good reminder and a valuable point. But .. I wonder how free the different Sony units really are. The media unit made life hard on its electronics unit for years by imposing all of the insane DRM stuff (that, for instance, killed MD).
As a company Sony really has lost the vision at the senior levels that drove the successes (and for certain some of the failures as well)
For a very long time senior management was a stable group who believed in giving R&D some free reign and would fund ideas conservative management wouldn't touch (Walkman anyone as an example)
It served them very well. That entire generation is now retired and have been replaced by a very different generation more bean counter than visionary. it's been a long while since Sony was truly innovative, now they are just big. Many of their best engineers actually left for smaller companies where they would have more creative freedom.
There was a time where they absolutely dominated markets (for over 30 years you could not by a better tv (at the mass market level in any case), they've now been surpassed by many others.
NEX is the most creative thing they've done in a long time, but for me i think it's just a poor design despite the benefits of APS-C
07-08-2011, 09:27 AM   #23
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So maybe Q system development was driven by Sony and/or Pentax and/or Nikon and/or Nokia and/or Star Trek's Q (OK, probably not). And maybe Q is not a 'serious' system, so the 'serious' camera wonks can have great fun and expend some serious energy dissing the concept. And maybe there actually is a serious market niche that Q can exploit and make tonnes of money for the participants.

And maybe there's a future beyond the initial offerings. Consider the evolution of 35mm film and cameras: The film from 24x18mm cine reels to 36x24 still reels to 135 (and later 126) carts. The cameras from (what we would now call) half-frame cine to full-frame stills to square and pano and half-frame stills, in bodies with vastly different registers (back-focus distance).

What Q offers is a physical mount, and a register. Q will apparently be built with a certain size sensor, but that size may change. An evolved Q2 might keep the physical mount but increase the register, facilitating different-size sensors. That's just speculation. But with the current specs, Q (register=9.2mm) would be an ideal host for 8-16mm cine and CCTV lenses (D=12.29mm; CS=12.52mm; C= 17.526mm) that WON'T work on a Sony NEX (register=18mm).

So Q can be marketed as a cute nifty gadget for hipsters, but also as a host system for legacy lens enthusiasts. I hope to see some stripped-down basic Q body, a P&S with zoom replaced by Q mount, and with C,CS,D adapters for tons of cheap old cine lenses. Is that serious enough?

07-08-2011, 09:44 AM   #24
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Thanks for the source.

The German text is interesting. Authors are quite sure that Nikon and Pentax will be using the same sensor. They argue that Nikon won't cannibalize their own APS-C business.

BTW, they mention the possibility that Pentax may only ship one load of Qs to Europe, based on preorders and that it may then become hard to buy one. They have also indicated the Q's good build quality was a surprise.

This indicates that the Q is a Japanese market project. I think this is a valid point of view. BTW, Auto 110 was a much bigger success in Japan than elsewhere too...
07-08-2011, 09:52 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote

What Q offers is a physical mount, and a register. Q will apparently be built with a certain size sensor, but that size may change. An evolved Q2 might keep the physical mount but increase the register, facilitating different-size sensors. That's just speculation. But with the current specs, Q (register=9.2mm) would be an ideal host for 8-16mm cine and CCTV lenses (D=12.29mm; CS=12.52mm; C= 17.526mm) that WON'T work on a Sony NEX (register=18mm).

So Q can be marketed as a cute nifty gadget for hipsters, but also as a host system for legacy lens enthusiasts. I hope to see some stripped-down basic Q body, a P&S with zoom replaced by Q mount, and with C,CS,D adapters for tons of cheap old cine lenses. Is that serious enough?
Sounds like the so far vapourware Kenko (which also had Nikon mount compatability i believe)

This gets more interesting as time goes on

I have to agree with Falconeye though this really does look like an asian market project with limited targets elsewhere (unless pre-orders far exceed expectations then that may well change)
07-08-2011, 03:15 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
. . .

This indicates that the Q is a Japanese market project. I think this is a valid point of view. BTW, Auto 110 was a much bigger success in Japan than elsewhere too...
I thought about this as well but concluded that at least the 110 had a bigger image (film) although it took film chemistry about 10 years after it was discontinued to catch up to its optics etc.
07-09-2011, 02:19 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I thought about this as well but concluded that at least the 110 had a bigger image (film) although it took film chemistry about 10 years after it was discontinued to catch up to its optics etc.
What do you mean by bigger image? Physically? That's true, the 110 actually has a FourThirds-sized sensor (film)! Therefore, it's a shame Pentax didn't release a digital 110 with a FT sensor. The Q is so much less than the 110 promise suggested. With or without a mirror, doesn't matter as the 110 has a mirror and optical viewfinder.
07-09-2011, 06:05 AM   #28
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This is good news. If Nikon is jumping onto this sensor boat it can't be that bad. Can it? Nikon has been known for image quality and beautiful colors. If they do use the same mount all the better if not at least people may stop bashing Pentax for choosing that sensor.

As for the rumor of availability it does make sense why distribution around the world maybe limited. The camera itself is very niche market wise. I would assume that once sold out more will be made to fill demand. After all, how many factories does Pentax have to construct this? I'm thinking they are sharing the DSLR factory.
07-09-2011, 06:53 AM   #29
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Maybe Japanese camera-makers decided to build new niche - compacts with interchangeable lenses?
07-14-2011, 06:40 PM   #30
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Doesn't Nikon already have a camera using this sensor in a P&S at about $300? What if they came out with a interchangeable at $500, that would kill the Pentax Q rather quickly.
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