Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-10-2011, 07:28 AM   #16
Veteran Member
RioRico's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Limbo, California
Posts: 11,264
I'll suggest that new primes in the 110-200mm range are pretty much a dead issue for crop-sensor cameras. That range is well covered by fast-enough zooms. Longer primes are desirable because longer faster zooms become huge and exorbitant. But that range just seems to be nearly a dead zone, with few offerings now. Why build something that won't be bought?

07-10-2011, 10:29 AM   #17
Senior Member
vicentesagredo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Concepcion
Posts: 100
QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Nothing is wrong with them really...I already have a DA 70mm ltd. I wouldnt mind a 100mm, but I would prefer a 135mm or 150mm.
I have looked all over for a FA 135mm, but no one wants to sell them
Pentax Autofocus 135 F2.8 SMC FA INTERNAL FOCUS (52) WITH CAPS 35MM SLR AUTO FOCUS TELEPHOTO LENS - KEH.com
07-10-2011, 02:35 PM   #18
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,556
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
I'll suggest that new primes in the 110-200mm range are pretty much a dead issue for crop-sensor cameras. That range is well covered by fast-enough zooms. Longer primes are desirable because longer faster zooms become huge and exorbitant. But that range just seems to be nearly a dead zone, with few offerings now. Why build something that won't be bought?
Again, a DA*135mm/f2.0 would be a different matter I think!
07-10-2011, 05:37 PM   #19
Veteran Member
RioRico's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Limbo, California
Posts: 11,264
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Again, a DA*135mm/f2.0 would be a different matter I think!
I look through the latest B&H catalog and I see that Canon and Nikon each have one 135/2, and Canon has a 135/2.8 (soft focus). No prices listed. Sony has a 135/2.8 and Zeiss' 135/1.8, each well over US$1k. Sigma has a 150/2.8 macro, but no 135. Tamron, Tokina, Samyang, Pentax have nothing there. Olympus has nothing comparable. All these lensmakers, scores of lenses -- and just 3 fast and one specialty 135's, all of which seem to be FF.

So I think it's fair to say that these makers just don't see market demand for 135mm on crop-sensor cameras. Maybe Ricoh's bean-counters read different numbers. Maybe they know of a hidden demand, and will push a DA*135/2. But I doubt it. NOTE: The FOV equivalent of 135mm on FF would be 85-90mm on APS-C. Everybody has a fast 85. That's obviously a lucrative spot.

07-10-2011, 06:40 PM   #20
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
I look through the latest B&H catalog and I see that Canon and Nikon each have one 135/2, and Canon has a 135/2.8 (soft focus). No prices listed. Sony has a 135/2.8 and Zeiss' 135/1.8, each well over US$1k. Sigma has a 150/2.8 macro, but no 135. Tamron, Tokina, Samyang, Pentax have nothing there. Olympus has nothing comparable. All these lensmakers, scores of lenses -- and just 3 fast and one specialty 135's, all of which seem to be FF.

So I think it's fair to say that these makers just don't see market demand for 135mm on crop-sensor cameras. Maybe Ricoh's bean-counters read different numbers. Maybe they know of a hidden demand, and will push a DA*135/2. But I doubt it. NOTE: The FOV equivalent of 135mm on FF would be 85-90mm on APS-C. Everybody has a fast 85. That's obviously a lucrative spot.
the thing is, Samyang, Tokina and Tamron don't have cameras to offer.Olympus atleast is compatible with the Sigma 150 before they abandoned their 4/3 dslr system. I can't speak the same with m4/3 since the system is fairly new and is still have to fill their lens lineup, however we see people adapting SLR telephoto lenses on m4/3 cameras . and the Sigma system has the 150mm. so basically, Pentax is the only crop sensor camera brand that doesn't offer a prime lens at that range. I don't believe it has something to do with no market demand for that specific focal length due to sensor size. but rather the commitment of the brand to produce such lens. in fact, it has been forever that Pentax users were looking for an FA135 successor (so glad I got myself one of the old FA). if FOV was really an issue and judging by FOV equivalence need, Pentax don't have a new fast 85mm to offer as well. it took another 3rd party manufacturer to build one for Pentax. there are a lot of certain focal length lenses that are missing badly for Pentax, not just the 135 or 85. we can also include a 60/2 and the much needed 28/2 lenses for that matter.
07-10-2011, 07:42 PM   #21
Site Supporter
rvannatta's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Apiary, Oregon
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,171
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Again, a DA*135mm/f2.0 would be a different matter I think!
agreed. The 50-135 SDM is almost as small as the FA 135 and they both feature f/2.8 (but much heavier). there are also consumer zooms that walk all over this focal length. While I grew up believing that primes were much better, it is fairly hard to demonstrate that life long prejudice when the zoom is the DA* 50-135.

At some point IQ is 'good enough', and the upward march of usable ISO numbers has diminished the value of optically fast glass.
07-10-2011, 10:06 PM - 1 Like   #22
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
agreed. The 50-135 SDM is almost as small as the FA 135 and they both feature f/2.8 (but much heavier). there are also consumer zooms that walk all over this focal length. While I grew up believing that primes were much better, it is fairly hard to demonstrate that life long prejudice when the zoom is the DA* 50-135.

At some point IQ is 'good enough', and the upward march of usable ISO numbers has diminished the value of optically fast glass.
you are completely mistaken if you think that both lenses are almost equal in size. the FA135 is significantly shorter or smaller than the DA* zoom (almost half). it is more like a compact telephoto lens if you ask me. also, the DA* zoom is at it's weakest at the 135mm. on the otherhand, it does improve a lot at slower apertures which is very good for those who don't need the extra speed (still a great performer if you ask me). of course, this does not only restrict the need for aperture speed for exposure but DOF as well.

the DA* zoom brings focal length flexibility for the cost of weight and size, while the FA135 prime brings compactness and close-focusing capability. Yes, the MFD of the FA135 is great and also gives the much needed flexibility. people shouldn't overlook how useful and advantageous having such shooting range. having said that, having a macro would even make it more flexible. that is why I got my eye on the Sigma 150 and could be a possible replacement for the FA135. although I could lose the compactness in that regard.
07-10-2011, 11:12 PM   #23
Veteran Member
TOUGEFC's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brisbane
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,561
QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
you are completely mistaken if you think that both lenses are almost equal in size. the FA135 is significantly shorter or smaller than the DA* zoom (almost half). it is more like a compact telephoto lens if you ask me. also, the DA* zoom is at it's weakest at the 135mm. on the otherhand, it does improve a lot at slower apertures which is very good for those who don't need the extra speed (still a great performer if you ask me). of course, this does not only restrict the need for aperture speed for exposure but DOF as well.

the DA* zoom brings focal length flexibility for the cost of weight and size, while the FA135 prime brings compactness and close-focusing capability. Yes, the MFD of the FA135 is great and also gives the much needed flexibility. people shouldn't overlook how useful and advantageous having such shooting range. having said that, having a macro would even make it more flexible. that is why I got my eye on the Sigma 150 and could be a possible replacement for the FA135. although I could lose the compactness in that regard.
Well said! +1 rep not only is the FA significantly shorter, its almost half the weight too!

07-10-2011, 11:14 PM   #24
Veteran Member
TOUGEFC's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brisbane
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,561
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
So I think it's fair to say that these makers just don't see market demand for 135mm on crop-sensor cameras. Maybe Ricoh's bean-counters read different numbers. Maybe they know of a hidden demand, and will push a DA*135/2. But I doubt it. NOTE: The FOV equivalent of 135mm on FF would be 85-90mm on APS-C. Everybody has a fast 85. That's obviously a lucrative spot.
NOTE: The FOV equivalent of 200mm on FF would be 135mm on APS-C
07-11-2011, 12:17 AM   #25
Veteran Member
dankoBanana's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 535
as I've already said, I don't thing a DA* 135 f2 would be appealing to a lot of people to justify its making. and its heavy "me too" lens and we know that's not the Pentax way
but an APS-C, compact, 120-135mm f2.4-2-8 DA Limited would be unique across brands. something a person could easily carry with their DA 15, 40, 70. I would be VERY interested in something like that.

the FA 135 f2.8 design looks great. update it for digital, if possible make it more compact by reducing the image circle for APS-C and make the body like the DFA 100 WR macro and I think we have a winner

Last edited by dankoBanana; 07-11-2011 at 12:29 AM.
07-11-2011, 02:12 AM   #26
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,556
QuoteOriginally posted by dankoBanana Quote
as I've already said, I don't thing a DA* 135 f2 would be appealing to a lot of people to justify its making. and its heavy "me too" lens and we know that's not the Pentax way
but an APS-C, compact, 120-135mm f2.4-2-8 DA Limited would be unique across brands. something a person could easily carry with their DA 15, 40, 70. I would be VERY interested in something like that.

the FA 135 f2.8 design looks great. update it for digital, if possible make it more compact by reducing the image circle for APS-C and make the body like the DFA 100 WR macro and I think we have a winner
Well bringing out a 135mm/f2.8 would damage sales for DA*50-135mm I think. So bringing a new lens would be the best to think off what new lens would have it's place on it's own.

That is why I thought about the gap between 77mm and 200mm (leaving the macro out) and how this could be filled. I called this in the survey https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/146454-wich-le...r-d-money.html the Long Portrait category. For that 5 choices came to the survey bringing each there own niche: DA*85mm/f1.4; DA-L 90mm/f2.8; DA 100mm/f2.4 Ltd.; FA 105mm/f1.9 Ltd. and DA*135mm/f2.0. So expanding the FA and DA Limited series at a logical next step. Going from 70mm -> 100mm and 77mm -> 105mm brings a new perspective without making a new gap in an excisting lensline. On the long end, a 135mm/f2.0 would make a new lens in line with other hi-end primes
  • DA*55mm/f1.4 (=84mm to film on APS-C)
  • DA*85mm/f1.4 (=130mm to film on APS-C) (not in production yet)
  • DA*135mm/f2.0 (=206mm to film on APS-C) (not in production yet)
  • DA*200mm/f2.8 (=306mm to film on APS-C)
  • DA*300mm/f4 (=458mm to film on APS-C)
Where each lens is about the next step in full format.

On the short side this would mean a 35mm/f1.4, but there we have FA 31mm/f1.8 to fil that gap.

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 07-11-2011 at 02:31 AM.
07-11-2011, 02:37 AM   #27
Veteran Member
dankoBanana's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 535
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well bringing out a 135mm/f2.8 would damage sales for DA*50-135mm I think. So bringing a new lens would be the best to think off what new lens would have it's place on it's own.
I don't agree
people who want a zoom will want a zoom. but to differentiate the products, make the prime less long. 110mm? 120? and not to fast (f2.4-2.8).
damn it, I want my compact DA Limited telephoto
07-11-2011, 02:51 AM   #28
Senior Member
akanarya's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Çankırı, Turkey
Posts: 210
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
This isn't a pentax lens, but it might end up being a beast: Sigma 150mm f/2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro Lens 106109 B&H Photo
seems realy a beast!
07-11-2011, 07:43 AM   #29
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,862
QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
I was just on Sigma's site last week looking at that lens and there was no mention of a pentax mount for it. Hopefully it will be coming out in the pentax mount and that it is not a mistake on the B&H site...
B&H listing is here:
-> Sigma 150mm f/2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro Lens 106109 B&H Photo

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
It was originally listed on the Sigma site and Sigma had acknowledged a K-mount version at one point but then "crawfished" and took that off their site. I wonder if the Sigma boys heard the Hoya boys were going to sell Pentax.
Sigma USA doesn't list the PA mount (did it ever do so)? But Sigma Germany does and always did:
-> 150mm F2.8 EX DG MAKRO OS HSM: SIGMA Deutschland GmbH

However, Sigma Germany doesn't do so yet in their online shop.

Nevertheless, I have a quote for the Sigma lens backed up by Sigma Germany who said (back in April) that the Pentax version would be later but will be (in September this year). They gave my dealer a price.

Today, I checked with Sigma Germany again (I phoned them). They assured me that Sigma Germany will sell the lens in Pentax mount but that they cannot speak for the US. They promised to cross-check with their US colleagues and keep me updated.
07-11-2011, 07:47 PM   #30
Site Supporter
rvannatta's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Apiary, Oregon
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,171
QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
you are completely mistaken if you think that both lenses are almost equal in size. the FA135 is significantly shorter or smaller than the DA* zoom (almost half). it is more like a compact telephoto lens if you ask me. also, the DA* zoom is at it's weakest at the 135mm. on the otherhand, it does improve a lot at slower apertures which is very good for those who don't need the extra speed (still a great performer if you ask me). of course, this does not only restrict the need for aperture speed for exposure but DOF as well.

the DA* zoom brings focal length flexibility for the cost of weight and size, while the FA135 prime brings compactness and close-focusing capability. Yes, the MFD of the FA135 is great and also gives the much needed flexibility. people shouldn't overlook how useful and advantageous having such shooting range. having said that, having a macro would even make it more flexible. that is why I got my eye on the Sigma 150 and could be a possible replacement for the FA135. although I could lose the compactness in that regard.
I may have put my foot in it some.... I lined up my FA 100 Macro with the 50-135
and found them to be similar but on review it looks like the FA 135 is smaller. Likewise It isn't that I wouldn't buy a 135 if available. Indeed I recently attempted to--was second high bidder on the last one to be offered on Ebay--a couple weeks ago.

However I have found that it is possible to take some adequate photos
with the the 50-135--- at 135
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
gap, pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MF telephoto or AF prime jellyfish26 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 8 05-08-2011 09:09 PM
Opinions on fast prime telephoto? Reportage Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 14 10-26-2010 11:47 AM
Telephoto Macro Prime Lens? unixrevolution Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 16 05-20-2010 03:27 PM
First Telephoto Prime - 135/3.5 or 200/4? macke Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 18 12-04-2009 10:42 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:16 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top