[philbaum]

I keep seeing the occasional references to the fact that Ricoh doesn't take over Pentax till Oct. 1st, and therefore we won't see this model or that product till much later. I think these comments are technically correct, but wrong

It has already been reported that Hoya and Ricoh have agreed to share the Pentax brand name, Hoya for medical equipment, Ricoh for camera equipment. Also i assume that Pentax will continue buying lens blanks from Hoya and perhaps some sharing of technology. In short, this is not a hostile takeover.

Since these are both Japanese companies and bear each other no ill will, i would be surprised if there isn't at least a verbal agreement out there to allow preliminary contacts between Ricoh and Pentax personnel.

Ricoh understands how important timing is in the retail market. I would find it unbelievable if there weren't numerous contacts already taking place. BUT, i know nothing of the law in these matters - so i've got my safety helmet on and am awaiting more informed information

[Emacs]

Any evidence?

[eddie1960]

I would tend to agree Phil, I imagine they have had some input for a while, this wasn't hostile (in fact i believe hoya was glad to get out of the business) co-operation on what's in development and what has been announced (i.e. the Q) is likely. Japanese companies have a history of working together. Add to that the fact that the key retail christmas season needs to be in place about the same time as the takeover means any new product for this year will be announced in September, and quite likely Pentax marketing divisions are already aware of it as will some key buyers for Camera chains.
that or there are no announcements for this year though historically that is unlikely as at minimum the KR replacement is due

[philbaum]

Any evidence?

From Mirrorless Rumors | Blog | Breaking news! Ricoh buys Pentax!!!

HOYA will effectuate this transfer by incorporating a new corporation
(“NewCo”), cause NewCo to succeed the PENTAX Imaging Systems Business by way of
a corporate split (kyushu bunkatsu) (the “Corporate Split”), and transfer all
shares of NewCo to Ricoh (such split and transfer shall be referred to as the
“Split/Transfer”) as of October 1, 2011 (Estimated).
Prior to the Split/Transfer, HOYA intends to transfer its interests in PENTAX VN CO., Ltd.,
an overseas subsidiary of HOYA in relation to the PENTAX Imaging Systems
Business, to NewCo.

I underlined the portion that says they are going to transfer the Hoya interests to the NewCo vehicle prior to the split transfer, which means to me that they will be working out the details of the split prior to October 1st, which probably means which personnel, which physical property, which pens and pencils - etc Also, the October 1st is only an estimated date.

So its not explicit if thats what you mean, but it clearly states Hoya is transfering its interests prior to the split. Ricoh and Hoya will have assigned teams working out the details. Ricoh and Hoya are competent business operations and they are not about to waste assets by letting them lie encumbered for any more time than absolutely necessary for the transfer.

Do i have any more proof than that - no. Does anyone have any proof they are waiting till Oct 1st to start their planning - i doubt it.

[bobmaxja]

Guy
These are public companies and each country have strong regulation regarding share information before government or shareholer approve the deal.

[Zygonyx]

Yes, and my bet is that nothing will be made publicly known by the two parts until the deal has been sealed and approved.
Just a few weeks to wait...

[Clavius]

I agree fully with the OP. Pentex remains a seperate entity. It did within Hoya and will within Ricoh.

Furthermore, halting all developement because the company was sold would be ridiculus. I think it makes more sense that Pentax will do their best to present themelves as best as possible to Ricoh when they start communicating with each other. Pentax wil be making more plans now then ever.

[philbaum]

Guy
These are public companies and each country have strong regulation regarding share information before government or shareholer approve the deal.

In my country, we would call that "insider information" related to buying/selling shares of stock. The prohibitions we have is over insider activities in buying/selling related to using information not available to the general public. Our laws, as far as i know, don't prohibit a company(s) from trying to improve their manufacturing process and marketing plans, just using that information in an unfair way in the brokerage market place.

If Ricoh or Hoya is unsure this will go forward in relation to a governmental decision, then they may decide the risk of wasted effort is not worth the advantage. But to me, this sounded like everyone thought it was a "done deal", all over but the champagne drinking.

I don't see anything unethical or illegal in these activities, just what a good manager might do to get his product to market on time. I'd promote anyone who could think ahead on stuff like this, and probably sidetrack anyone who didn't display the imagination necessary to operate like this. The old cliche: time is money.

[Zygonyx]

Absolutely, internal exchanges must have taken place, and hopefully they did as soon as July the first if not earlier...
With all of today's announcements (no less than 4 new bodies...), Sony doesn't wait for Ricoh to ask them any question re. future products lines and sensor business...

[Aristophanes]

Absolutely, internal exchanges must have taken place, and hopefully they did as soon as July the first if not earlier...
With all of today's announcements (no less than 4 new bodies...), Sony doesn't wait for Ricoh to ask them any question re. future products lines and sensor business...

The difference is that until transfer is complete, Pentax/Hoya cannot enter int long term supplier positions without declaring. These are extension of credit and inventory for tax purposes.

In general, these takeovers stall development until the lawyers and bean counters do their diligence.

[Fontan]

Speculation is for what again?

[Blue]

In my country, we would call that "insider information" related to buying/selling shares of stock. The prohibitions we have is over insider activities in buying/selling related to using information not available to the general public. Our laws, as far as i know, don't prohibit a company(s) from trying to improve their manufacturing process and marketing plans, just using that information in an unfair way in the brokerage market place.

If Ricoh or Hoya is unsure this will go forward in relation to a governmental decision, then they may decide the risk of wasted effort is not worth the advantage. But to me, this sounded like everyone thought it was a "done deal", all over but the champagne drinking.

I don't see anything unethical or illegal in these activities, just what a good manager might do to get his product to market on time. I'd promote anyone who could think ahead on stuff like this, and probably sidetrack anyone who didn't display the imagination necessary to operate like this. The old cliche: time is money.

There is always the risk that the regulatory people (i.e. monopoloy/antitrust etc.) don't approve the transaction. While time is money, red tape is red tape. Would you build a building before securing the building permit etc.?

[adr1an]

Would you build a building before securing the building permit etc.?

Depends what Country I'm building it in and what sort of.. ahem... "Fine" I can pay to make it resolve the problem later

[Blue]

Depends what Country I'm building it in and what sort of.. ahem... "Fine" I can pay to make it resolve the problem later

Yeah, and you would crap your pants when you get a court order to tear it down! We are talking about multi-million dollar corporate business transactions here, not a shack built in the out back. In other words, there is a difference in a $10M building vs. a $1000 tool shed.

[adr1an]

Yeah, and you would crap your pants when you get a court order to tear it down! We are talking about multi-million dollar corporate business transactions here, not a shack built in the out back. In other words, there is a difference in a $10M building vs. a $1000 tool shed.

I was being a tad sarcastic - but I was also talking about Multi Million Dollar Developments too.... not tool sheds.... In many countries, my response to your question is entirely valid... and unfortunately is seen as 'sound economic development' at the same time... Remember.. not every country or economy actually 'functions' Above Board so to speak...

But dont get side tracked here... I was just being a smart arse in response to your question.... its not valid in the specific context of the discussion nor is it the 'japanese way' at all - so wouldn't happen...... not so sure about Economies in the general vicinity though.... But ultimately - just remember that not every country 'works the same' as say the US, Australia or other "Western" Economies. We are the 'odd ones out' so to speak in how 'we' choose to do things....