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08-31-2011, 10:52 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Now that's an unconsolidated market. And there's a Canadian chip manufacturer? Live and learn....
competing in the high end Medium format market. Dalsa makes mamiya sensors AFAIK, and possibly some of the Hassy and Phase sensors
Maybe a good source for Pentax if Kodak get's dismantled

08-31-2011, 10:54 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
Maybe, maybe not. To process 24MP @12fps it needs almost 3 times the processing power of the K-5. And is 12fps with a mirror technically feasible? The best pro Canon and Nikon top at 10-11fps. Sony was clever and showing their muscles on this one, although personally I don't really need 12fps and 24MP. It will be interesting to see how Canon and Nikon react to this. Clearly the EVF will sooner than later take over the OVF on almost every front (faster, cheaper, bigger, clearer). Let's be honest OVF have not much to improve on while EVF are progressing quickly.
In 12fps mode A77 has focus and exposure locked. So any regular SLR can do the same by simply liftng the mirror. Regarding the processing speed, that is simple moores law. Don't forget it does not do 14bit RAW as K-5 does - so the amount of data is closer to double rather than triple. ( I prefer to have 14bit RAW with 14EV DR than more megapixels anyway. ) I'd be surprised if there is no DSP solution on the market now of very soon, capable of handling that amount of data.
For the EVF it certainly has advantages. Best if it is in a form of overlay as we can see with Fuji X100. Because no matter how fast it is, it will never exceed speed of light.
08-31-2011, 12:08 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
In 12fps mode A77 has focus and exposure locked. So any regular SLR can do the same by simply liftng the mirror.
You're right I forgot that. Exposure locked is not a big deal usually (light doesn't change so quickly usually). Focus is more of an issue although I guess it's a matter of processing speed and algorithm because SLT has one big advantage over traditional DSLR: the AF module always receive light because it's in front of the shutter.

QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
Regarding the processing speed, that is simple moores law. Don't forget it does not do 14bit RAW as K-5 does - so the amount of data is closer to double rather than triple. ( I prefer to have 14bit RAW with 14EV DR than more megapixels anyway. ) I'd be surprised if there is no DSP solution on the market now of very soon, capable of handling that amount of data.
I hope so. Prime II was introduced with the K-7, it's been more than 2 years now.

QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
For the EVF it certainly has advantages. Best if it is in a form of overlay as we can see with Fuji X100. Because no matter how fast it is, it will never exceed speed of light.
Because OVF are capable of exceeding the speed of light?

At some point EVF will be fast enough that you won't be able to tell the difference. BTW Panasonic just introduced an EVF running at 120Hz refresh rate.
08-31-2011, 01:00 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I hope so. Prime II was introduced with the K-7, it's been more than 2 years now.
Do you really believe Pentax is developing the DSP on their own, instead of buying some solution existing on the market? I don't even believe all the "Digic" are developed by Canon. The same for Expeed and Exmor. Canon just thought it is a good marketing move to call the DSP some names and others followed. But in reality it these are mosty generic solutions bought from some semiconductor supplier. It is definately so for Pentax and Nikon - they don't have resources to develop and manufacture own silicon on such high integration level.

08-31-2011, 01:13 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
Do you really believe Pentax is developing the DSP on their own,
Actually no because it was already uncovered in these forums which kind of processor was used (Fujitsu if I'm not mistaken). But I guess Pentax wouldn't use a new number for their "Prime" if it was still the same.

For Sony and other big electronic companies it maybe different and they may use exclusive CPUs.
08-31-2011, 01:20 PM   #141
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PRIME is in fact Fujitsu Milbeaut, isn't it? I believe faster versions are already available/announced (Milbeaut M-6?)
08-31-2011, 01:58 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
For Sony and other big electronic companies it maybe different and they may use exclusive CPUs.
Sure, they may - if it is cheaper for them or if none of the available parts is suitable for their specific needs. But I believe they mostly do not.
08-31-2011, 03:26 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
PRIME is in fact Fujitsu Milbeaut, isn't it? I believe faster versions are already available/announced (Milbeaut M-6?)
If Pentax uses that it won't be up to the Sony performance:

"shoot 8 frames per second at 14 megapixels and 5.5 frames per second at 20 megapixels." (source Fujitsu). It's far from 12 fps at 24 megapixels. This doesn't seem any better than what the K-5 is already doing.

Edit: it's probably not the same kind of processor, this one seems targeted at P&S and cell phones.


Last edited by ManuH; 08-31-2011 at 04:06 PM.
08-31-2011, 04:20 PM   #144
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The specs on the new sensor are impressive. After looking at some early review photo the jpegs it produces, they just don't look that impressive. Will have to wait for raw to tell for sure. I noticed that moving from the K20D to the K-5 that images from my cheap lenses looked worse on the new sensor. I can only imagine what 24 MP will do with cheap glass. That's especially important with the NEX 7. Sony hasn't put out decent enough E mount lenses for that camera to look appealing right now. The new Alphas, on the other hand...

I imagine that Pentax will look seriously at the new sensor with its next iteration of the K-5, but in the mean time this tells me to save my spare change for limited lenses that can actually take advantage of the higher resolution. Also, unless the new sensor has the same dynamic range, low ISO performance, and color range as the current 16 MP version, I don't see it as an improvement.
08-31-2011, 05:40 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
At some point EVF will be fast enough that you won't be able to tell the difference. BTW Panasonic just introduced an EVF running at 120Hz refresh rate.
It's not the lack of speed that spoils EVFs for me. Nor is it the lack of resolution. It's the additional abstraction layer imposed by the EVF that I have trouble with. It just feels odd to me - OK, now I'm taking a picture of ... a picture of what I really want to take a picture of. Ugh.

Maybe I'll get used to it eventually, or maybe a HVF (holographic view finder) will help.
08-31-2011, 05:44 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
So, it's clear the latest samsung sensor outperforms noisy sony one by a very large margin.
Once DxOMark has tested both sensors, we'll know something. Right now, it is not "clear" at all.

QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
In 12fps mode A77 has focus and exposure locked. So any regular SLR can do the same by simply liftng the mirror.
Where have you got this information from?

The A77 locks focus when you set it to single focus mode.

In continuous focus mode, however, the AF will track during the 12fps.

It would be crazy to not exploit the fact that the AF sensor is not blinded by a flopping mirror.

EDIT: From the Dpreview Preview:
"As with the implementation in previous SLT models, there are some limitations placed on the amount of exposure control you can take with the A77 if AF is to be maintained in the 12fps and video modes."
So there are limitations regarding exposure modes in the 12fps and video modes when AF is engaged, but clearly one can use continuous AF in these modes.

Last edited by Class A; 08-31-2011 at 06:00 PM.
08-31-2011, 07:58 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by mysticcowboy Quote
...
That's especially important with the NEX 7. Sony hasn't put out decent enough E mount lenses for that camera to look appealing right now.
It looks like Zeiss is starting to make E-mount lenses. So you won't have to buy Sony's lenses.
08-31-2011, 07:58 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I'm using a quad core i7 3.4Ghz running @4.5Ghz and I still find LR not fast enough. 24MP is not going to help. It will need 50% more horsepower. Like I said elsewhere if ISO/DR is equal or better to the 16MP sensor, it's OK, if not, I have not much interest to slow down my workflow for no practical gain.

My computing power is pretty much the same and I agree regarding Lightroom. For this reason I weouldrather Pentax stick to 16mp at the most and concentreate on improve ISO and dynamic rabnge performance
08-31-2011, 09:37 PM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
My computing power is pretty much the same and I agree regarding Lightroom. For this reason I weouldrather Pentax stick to 16mp at the most and concentreate on improve ISO and dynamic rabnge performance
Well, I don't think that Pentax participates in sensor development. They just buy available sensors.
09-01-2011, 01:16 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Well, I don't think that Pentax participates in sensor development. They just buy available sensors.
Which is the good thing. As independent manufacturer they can simply choose the supplier with the best image sensor available. I doubt Sony will hold this position for a long time.
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