Pentax version of the Sony a77 coming ?

Philippos · 09-01-2011, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by elho_cid

Which is the good thing. As independent manufacturer they can simply choose the supplier with the best image sensor available. I doubt Sony will hold this position for a long time.

It is a good thing as long as Pentax remains a minor player. If it grows large enough to threaten the marketshare of the "big boys", it is quite probable that it will be denied access to buy the "good" sensors in time. It is the reason why Canon and Panasonic do not sell their DSLR sensors and why Nikon plans to make their own sensors too.
If Sony or Samsung decide to stop providing sensors in order to gain bigger share in the camera market, Pentax (and others) will have to look in other sensor makers like Aptina - that has never been the leader in sensor innovation (and prefer the mobile phone market as the ROI is much more tempting). A situation like this will probably render the brand uncompetitive.

We can't also know what the exact clauses of a mass market purchase agreement can contain. It is not that unlikely for Sony to force Pentax, or any other of it's customers, to stop buying from other manufacturers or else...

Freedom of choice is a good thing, as long as there is a choice to be made. Independence is a good thing too...

IMHO the next revolution will be a modular camera. The GXR is a good idea that begs to be taken further. A modular DSLR with upgradable / optional parts and functions in the style of RED (or even better) is what I'm hoping what the next big thing will be...

**Rondec** · 09-01-2011, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by tuco

It looks like Zeiss is starting to make E-mount lenses. So you won't have to buy Sony's lenses.

Is Zeiss actually making the lenses, or is Sony just paying them for their name again?

Philippos · 09-01-2011, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

...So, it's clear the latest samsung sensor outperforms noisy sony one by a very large margin. But I won't buy pentax camera with it cause I don't interested in APS-C cameras for my full frame lenses anymore (will likely buy nx20 + 16 + 20 + 30 pancakes)

Well, that was my original idea too, but DPReview has new samples from the NX200 and the ISO3200 photos don't seem to be anything special at all. Too much processing and lots of grain. There is a huge difference from the images posted in the Korean forum.
The K5 outperforms it easily, in fact, I won't be surprised if the K5's measured resolution will be higher that the NX200 in ISO3200 despite the sensor's pixel count.

Emacs · 09-01-2011, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by Philippos

Well, that was my original idea too, but DPReview has new samples from the NX200 and the ISO3200 photos don't seem to be anything special at all. Too much processing and lots of grain. There is a huge difference from the images posted in the Korean forum.
The K5 outperforms it easily, in fact, I won't be surprised if the K5's measured resolution will be higher that the NX200 in ISO3200 despite the sensor's pixel count.

You must be blind. I've seen ISO400 samples, and they are definitely cleaner than K-5's.

Clavius · 09-01-2011, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

You must be blind. I've seen ISO400 samples, and they are definitely cleaner than K-5's.

If your K5 shows ANY ISO-noise whatsoever on ISO400, then your unit is faulty.

Winder · 09-01-2011, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Philippos

Well, that was my original idea too, but DPReview has new samples from the NX200 and the ISO3200 photos don't seem to be anything special at all. Too much processing and lots of grain. There is a huge difference from the images posted in the Korean forum.
The K5 outperforms it easily, in fact, I won't be surprised if the K5's measured resolution will be higher that the NX200 in ISO3200 despite the sensor's pixel count.

For pre-production JPEGs the NX200 looks pretty good. Like the A77 we won't really know anything until real cameras are shipping and Adobe or DxO releases support for the RAW files.

Trying to judge sensor performance from pre-production JPEGs is a waste of time.

tuco · 09-01-2011, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Is Zeiss actually making the lenses, or is Sony just paying them for their name again?

Well, I see it called the Sony Carl Zeiss lens. So that could be the case. Some people have posted pictures using the Zeiss Sonnar T* E 24mm f/1.8 ZA while others just have a picture of the lens which has the Zeiss name on it.

Philippos · 09-01-2011, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

You must be blind. I've seen ISO400 samples, and they are definitely cleaner than K-5's.

My K5 shows no visible noise in ISO400.
However, I would like to see these samples you mention for myself. Could you please post some links?

Emacs · 09-01-2011, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by Philippos

My K5 shows no visible noise in ISO400.
However, I would like to see these samples you mention for myself. Could you please post some links?

Just shoot the sky @ ISO 80. You would get a visible noise in it.

Winder · 09-01-2011, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by tuco

Well, I see it called the Sony Carl Zeiss lens. So that could be the case. Some people have posted pictures using the Zeiss Sonnar T* E 24mm f/1.8 ZA while others just have a picture of the lens which has the Zeiss name on it.

Sony is making the Zeiss designed lenses to Zeiss specifications. Zeiss is not making the lenses. The same thing is happening with Panasonic and Leica. Leica designs the glass and sets the specifications and quality standards, but they are made by Panasonic.

falconeye · 09-01-2011, 08:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Emacs

I've predicted several month ago Samsung will own Sony as a sensor maker (technologically)

Emacs, more than by your curious statement I stumbled across your new avatar.

Let me inform you that I feel offended by it.

It reminds me of the flag of the Nazi party
-> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Flag_of_Nazi_German...945%29.svg.png

and being German, I was teached in school to feel offended by such things (I'm pretty sure, Stallman and Gosling won't appreciate to see their "E" in such a way either). IMHO, this forum is no place for such "artwork" (you may change the color from red to something else if you didn't intent the effect your avatar now has).

Thanks for your attention.

andi · 09-01-2011, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

So, it's clear the latest samsung sensor outperforms noisy sony one by a very large margin.

What kind of bs is this?
you have no idea, but it's "clear" and "by a very large margin".

People should be banned for spreading false statements like that.

Emacs · 09-01-2011, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Gosling

How does this guy relate to Emacs?
Java sucks too.

Clavius · 09-01-2011, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

Just shoot the sky @ ISO 80. You would get a visible noise in it.

My copy sure doesn't... Your copy of the K5 does?!?

Emacs · 09-01-2011, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

My copy sure doesn't... Your copy of the K5 does?!?

Your one does it. Just sharpen shot a little or apply red filter with conversion to monochrome.

09-01-2011, 08:22 AM - 1 Like	#161
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Emacs I've predicted several month ago Samsung will own Sony as a sensor maker (technologically) Emacs, more than by your curious statement I stumbled across your new avatar. Let me inform you that I feel offended by it. It reminds me of the flag of the Nazi party -> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Flag_of_Nazi_German...945%29.svg.png and being German, I was teached in school to feel offended by such things (I'm pretty sure, Stallman and Gosling won't appreciate to see their "E" in such a way either). IMHO, this forum is no place for such "artwork" (you may change the color from red to something else if you didn't intent the effect your avatar now has). Thanks for your attention. Last edited by falconeye; 09-01-2011 at 08:33 AM.

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09-01-2011, 03:53 AM	#151
Philippos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Volos - Greece Posts: 178	Originally posted by elho_cid Which is the good thing. As independent manufacturer they can simply choose the supplier with the best image sensor available. I doubt Sony will hold this position for a long time. It is a good thing as long as Pentax remains a minor player. If it grows large enough to threaten the marketshare of the "big boys", it is quite probable that it will be denied access to buy the "good" sensors in time. It is the reason why Canon and Panasonic do not sell their DSLR sensors and why Nikon plans to make their own sensors too. If Sony or Samsung decide to stop providing sensors in order to gain bigger share in the camera market, Pentax (and others) will have to look in other sensor makers like Aptina - that has never been the leader in sensor innovation (and prefer the mobile phone market as the ROI is much more tempting). A situation like this will probably render the brand uncompetitive. We can't also know what the exact clauses of a mass market purchase agreement can contain. It is not that unlikely for Sony to force Pentax, or any other of it's customers, to stop buying from other manufacturers or else... Freedom of choice is a good thing, as long as there is a choice to be made. Independence is a good thing too... IMHO the next revolution will be a modular camera. The GXR is a good idea that begs to be taken further. A modular DSLR with upgradable / optional parts and functions in the style of RED (or even better) is what I'm hoping what the next big thing will be...

09-01-2011, 03:55 AM	#152
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by tuco It looks like Zeiss is starting to make E-mount lenses. So you won't have to buy Sony's lenses. Is Zeiss actually making the lenses, or is Sony just paying them for their name again?

09-01-2011, 04:07 AM	#153
Philippos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Volos - Greece Posts: 178	Originally posted by Emacs ...So, it's clear the latest samsung sensor outperforms noisy sony one by a very large margin. But I won't buy pentax camera with it cause I don't interested in APS-C cameras for my full frame lenses anymore (will likely buy nx20 + 16 + 20 + 30 pancakes) Well, that was my original idea too, but DPReview has new samples from the NX200 and the ISO3200 photos don't seem to be anything special at all. Too much processing and lots of grain. There is a huge difference from the images posted in the Korean forum. The K5 outperforms it easily, in fact, I won't be surprised if the K5's measured resolution will be higher that the NX200 in ISO3200 despite the sensor's pixel count.

09-01-2011, 04:16 AM	#154
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by Philippos Well, that was my original idea too, but DPReview has new samples from the NX200 and the ISO3200 photos don't seem to be anything special at all. Too much processing and lots of grain. There is a huge difference from the images posted in the Korean forum. The K5 outperforms it easily, in fact, I won't be surprised if the K5's measured resolution will be higher that the NX200 in ISO3200 despite the sensor's pixel count. You must be blind. I've seen ISO400 samples, and they are definitely cleaner than K-5's.

09-01-2011, 05:14 AM	#155
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Emacs You must be blind. I've seen ISO400 samples, and they are definitely cleaner than K-5's. If your K5 shows ANY ISO-noise whatsoever on ISO400, then your unit is faulty.

09-01-2011, 06:47 AM	#156
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Philippos Well, that was my original idea too, but DPReview has new samples from the NX200 and the ISO3200 photos don't seem to be anything special at all. Too much processing and lots of grain. There is a huge difference from the images posted in the Korean forum. The K5 outperforms it easily, in fact, I won't be surprised if the K5's measured resolution will be higher that the NX200 in ISO3200 despite the sensor's pixel count. For pre-production JPEGs the NX200 looks pretty good. Like the A77 we won't really know anything until real cameras are shipping and Adobe or DxO releases support for the RAW files. Trying to judge sensor performance from pre-production JPEGs is a waste of time.

09-01-2011, 07:02 AM	#157
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,026	Originally posted by Rondec Is Zeiss actually making the lenses, or is Sony just paying them for their name again? Well, I see it called the Sony Carl Zeiss lens. So that could be the case. Some people have posted pictures using the Zeiss Sonnar T* E 24mm f/1.8 ZA while others just have a picture of the lens which has the Zeiss name on it.

09-01-2011, 07:52 AM	#158
Philippos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Volos - Greece Posts: 178	Originally posted by Emacs You must be blind. I've seen ISO400 samples, and they are definitely cleaner than K-5's. My K5 shows no visible noise in ISO400. However, I would like to see these samples you mention for myself. Could you please post some links?

09-01-2011, 08:14 AM	#159
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by Philippos My K5 shows no visible noise in ISO400. However, I would like to see these samples you mention for myself. Could you please post some links? Just shoot the sky @ ISO 80. You would get a visible noise in it.

09-01-2011, 08:16 AM	#160
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by tuco Well, I see it called the Sony Carl Zeiss lens. So that could be the case. Some people have posted pictures using the Zeiss Sonnar T* E 24mm f/1.8 ZA while others just have a picture of the lens which has the Zeiss name on it. Sony is making the Zeiss designed lenses to Zeiss specifications. Zeiss is not making the lenses. The same thing is happening with Panasonic and Leica. Leica designs the glass and sets the specifications and quality standards, but they are made by Panasonic.

09-01-2011, 08:49 AM	#162
andi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 200	Originally posted by Emacs So, it's clear the latest samsung sensor outperforms noisy sony one by a very large margin. What kind of bs is this? you have no idea, but it's "clear" and "by a very large margin". People should be banned for spreading false statements like that.

09-01-2011, 10:09 AM	#163
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by falconeye Gosling How does this guy relate to Emacs? Java sucks too.

09-01-2011, 11:04 AM	#164
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Emacs Just shoot the sky @ ISO 80. You would get a visible noise in it. My copy sure doesn't... Your copy of the K5 does?!?

09-01-2011, 11:12 AM	#165
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by Clavius My copy sure doesn't... Your copy of the K5 does?!? Your one does it. Just sharpen shot a little or apply red filter with conversion to monochrome.