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09-11-2011, 08:07 AM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The register distance makes that impossible, which is why Sony has an all new mirrorless (and video) E-mount alongside the Alpha mount, and an adapter.

LA-EA1 | α NEX Camera Mount Adapter | Sony | Sony Store USA

Sony's dilemma is to lose a big chunk of their high-margin FF base if they abandon the OVF for an SLT system. I think they'll retool the A900 to keep the traditionalist base. Sony will blood the FF mirrorless market in 2013 (preview at Photokina 2012), but will intro an SLT FF A99 early 2012. Sony has become the most watched camera company now because they own a sensor roadmap.

In this thread the demands are as mixed as Pentax's options. Some want FF mirrorless, some demand an old school OVF. There's no consensus here and none in the market, which looks increasingly fractured. My opinion is that any Pentax FF of any design would sell too few units to generate a return given the shrinking profile of the DSLR format within aggregate sales. The numbers are simply not there extrapolating from the current Pentax sell-through.
The register distance does not make it impossible but it would require a screw drive in the body. The adapter could work a lot like my 25mm af extension tube. It extends the screw drive, electrical contacts and even works with my DA* 300mm giving it some nice close focus range on the K20d body.

09-11-2011, 08:10 AM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
To not do video you could use the Kodak CCD sensor Leica's M9 uses.

The 645D has no video. What a coup that would have been (adding another 1,000 grams in battery and cooling fan).

Note a 645D and Leica cost about the same.
Very true. However, the M9 is only full frame and lenses lack af. The 645D is a "cropped" medium format body with both af and mf lens options. Actually I like the M9 for ultra wide to ~ 100mm lenses but it is out of my league price wise as is the 645D. I am not sure a non-video compact ff body would be such a bad Idea if Pentax could release it at $2100 and have the IQ of the M9. However, Kodak's sensor unit may be up for grabs and Ricoh should go after it.
09-11-2011, 08:12 AM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I would agree if ...

... photographers with a more developed workflow wouldn't avoid Flickr at all. After all, Flickr has an unclear copyright policy and ugly representation, compared to some alternatives.
Thus the relative scarcity of D3x users represented

It would be interesting to know what's really going on for sure. I think we all know however that there are many more entry-level txi owners than 5D owners.


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09-11-2011, 08:32 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Thus the relative scarcity of D3x users represented

It would be interesting to know what's really going on for sure. I think we all know however that there are many more entry-level txi owners than 5D owners.


.
There are a lot of images with missing exif data. I would also guess that many of people with entry level gear etc. may not know much about exif data or how to keep it from getting stripped out.

09-11-2011, 10:32 AM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
It would be interesting to know what's really going on for sure. I think we all know however that there are many more entry-level txi owners than 5D owners.
A simple explanation is that Canon DSLR are scattered among many models. The T1, T2, etc are released on a very short cycle. But still the 7D vs 5D is interesting. If Pentax had released a FF K-1 at the same time as the K-5 for let's say 2500$, I wonder how many people would have gone for the FF camera.

I don't agree with the others explanation:
- missing exif... most entry-level would shoot jpeg and not bother with stripping exif
- advanced photographers avoiding Flickr? nonsense. There's many way how to use Flickr and avoid copyright issues.

The 5D still does better on average *daily* users. I think that people doing photography on a daily basis are what I would call serious amateurs.

On the Nikon side, it's interesting to see that the D700 gets better numbers than D300/D300s (but not both).
09-11-2011, 11:13 AM   #246
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My personal Pentax Full Frame poll:

(X) Wish "Pentax" releases a FF camera
(X) Expected "Pentax" to release a FF camera in 2010
(X) Expected "Pentax" to release a FF camera in 2011
( ) Expect "Pentax" to release a FF camera within the next year

Last edited by Raffwal; 09-11-2011 at 11:19 AM.
09-11-2011, 12:34 PM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
There are a lot of images with missing exif data. I would also guess that many of people with entry level gear etc. may not know much about exif data or how to keep it from getting stripped out.
I know a few photographers who never include EXIF data because they think people will steal and copy their techniques or something. I'm not really joking though... I personally always leave EXIF in my photos and enable it to be visible on whatever sites I upload to.

QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I don't agree with the others explanation:
- missing exif... most entry-level would shoot jpeg and not bother with stripping exif
- advanced photographers avoiding Flickr? nonsense. There's many way how to use Flickr and avoid copyright issues.
The 5D still does better on average *daily* users. I think that people doing photography on a daily basis are what I would call serious amateurs.
On the Nikon side, it's interesting to see that the D700 gets better numbers than D300/D300s (but not both).
Yeah, I agree that new DSLR users would just upload JPEGs from the camera. I know of one guy off hand who does just that, but in his case he thinks that making the best image in-camera is his goal and that post processing is cheating.

The D700 is probably a lot more popular than some people think. Most people would probably try to spend that extra bit of money to go full-frame if they can. However I do know a guy with a D300s who never uploads his photos online. I doubt that's a trait of D300s owners in general though.
09-11-2011, 01:58 PM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
A simple explanation is that Canon DSLR are scattered among many models. The T1, T2, etc are released on a very short cycle. But still the 7D vs 5D is interesting. If Pentax had released a FF K-1 at the same time as the K-5 for let's say 2500$, I wonder how many people would have gone for the FF camera.

I don't agree with the others explanation:
- missing exif... most entry-level would shoot jpeg and not bother with stripping exif
- advanced photographers avoiding Flickr? nonsense. There's many way how to use Flickr and avoid copyright issues.


The 5D still does better on average *daily* users. I think that people doing photography on a daily basis are what I would call serious amateurs.

On the Nikon side, it's interesting to see that the D700 gets better numbers than D300/D300s (but not both).
Missing exif are missing in many cases because they are inadvertently taken out by the way an image is processed (i.e for the web by CS3) or by editing it a certain way in flickr which is what I meant by entry level photographers having missing exif whether it is a bottom Rebel or anything else. Its not whether anyone agrees with it or not, it is they way it is. I have some images that have been there for 3 years and the exif was there and at some point disappeared.

As far as avoiding flickr, there are other competing sites out there and if people go the pay route, they generally pick one. Without a pro-site at flickr, there is a limit to the number of pics that will display.

09-12-2011, 12:46 AM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
source: Flickr: Camera Finder: Canon

What's interesting is that the graph is showing the 5D Mk II on the rising, the same curve as the 7D. But the 5D Mk II is almost a 3 years old model! (Actually that also helps a lot for cumulative statistics like the Flickr, but its growing rate is as fast as the 7D). It means that advanced amateurs choose as much the 5D as the 7D. Which could be interpreted as "if I'm going to pay 1600$ for a top APS-C I could as well stretch my budget by a few hundreds and get the real thing". Which is a sound decision considering that anyway the cost of a photographic system is mostly in the lenses most of the time.
It could also be interpeted as, there are more and more second hand 5D bodies coming on the market, so more amateurs can afford them now.
09-12-2011, 12:57 AM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
It could also be interpeted as, there are more and more second hand 5D bodies coming on the market, so more amateurs can afford them now.
Well, at least one online store in Australia is trying to clear them out for less than half price - so tempted to buy one, but a clearance sale usually means a new model is on the horizon. The $2000 price point is tempting for a full frame.
09-12-2011, 07:01 AM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Well, at least one online store in Australia is trying to clear them out for less than half price - so tempted to buy one, but a clearance sale usually means a new model is on the horizon. The $2000 price point is tempting for a full frame.
Yeah, but as soon as the new version comes out you'll be bummed that you didn't wait an extra few months and saved a few hundred more dollars for the latest (and greatest).
09-12-2011, 07:04 PM - 1 Like   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Well, at least one online store in Australia is trying to clear them out for less than half price - so tempted to buy one, but a clearance sale usually means a new model is on the horizon. The $2000 price point is tempting for a full frame.
My philosophy is always buy the outdated model, what do I gain by paying extra just to have the newest model which will be outdated in three years anyways. I lost nothing and only gained by sticking with the K7 until now to upgrade to the K5. So there were some people who got the better high ISO for one extra year out of the 19years I have been serious about photography, quite tolerable to save $500. If you want fulframe it is hard to beat that price. But keep in mind that the price of the camera is less than half what you will have to lay down for lenses, for me it only comes out to a 15% savings considering the new lenses to buy.
09-12-2011, 08:26 PM   #253
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Question I just thought of. Will SR still work on FF with the old FF lenses? If the sensor moves up the risk of vignetting goes up. So how much does the sensor really move is the first question? If it is moving much then the lenses may need to be modified to account for a larger image circle. Now it would only be a problem if using SR. Of course if the sensor has very little movement then it is a non issue... Just a thought.
09-13-2011, 12:10 AM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
Question I just thought of. Will SR still work on FF with the old FF lenses? If the sensor moves up the risk of vignetting goes up. So how much does the sensor really move is the first question? If it is moving much then the lenses may need to be modified to account for a larger image circle. Now it would only be a problem if using SR. Of course if the sensor has very little movement then it is a non issue... Just a thought.
Sony had no problem with SteadyShot in the full-frame α900.

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09-13-2011, 03:28 AM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
So how much does the sensor really move is the first question?
This can be computed and I did (search the forum). SR with FF would work.

If the CoC is a measure of acceptable blur (30Ám for FF), a 4 stop improvement means 2^4*30Ám or 0.5mm movement, increasing the image circle from 43.3mm to 44.7mm which is a 3% increase. Which can totally be ignored in this discussion.

Last edited by falconeye; 09-13-2011 at 03:33 AM.
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