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09-13-2011, 11:25 AM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
My philosophy is always buy the outdated model, what do I gain by paying extra just to have the newest model which will be outdated in three years anyways. I lost nothing and only gained by sticking with the K7 until now to upgrade to the K5. So there were some people who got the better high ISO for one extra year out of the 19years I have been serious about photography, quite tolerable to save $500. If you want fulframe it is hard to beat that price. But keep in mind that the price of the camera is less than half what you will have to lay down for lenses, for me it only comes out to a 15% savings considering the new lenses to buy.

I totally agree, and if you can't take a good picture with the ''old" model, a new model will not improve it anyway

09-15-2011, 01:33 AM   #257
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Why IPad a sucess? Implications for Q and APC...

It is not because it has the fastest processor. It does not.
It is not because it is the smallest. It is not.
It is not because of the design (Dare I say this?). Everyone can copy it.

I think that the secret sauce is that IPad is created at the right juncture between unrealized consumer needs and technological advances. What is the nexus with Pentax?

Bottomline is that Q's small sensor may not longer be a major shortcoming given the technological improvement. Counter-intuitively, Q has the potential to be a success story. FF's advantage is increasingly diminished and will become just a status symbol in a foreseeable future.

With Q and 645D, my guess is that Pentax will not venture out toward FF, being mirrorless or not. My recommendation for Pentax: stay put and make existing products better.

Last edited by yyyzzz; 09-15-2011 at 01:34 AM. Reason: typos
09-15-2011, 04:32 AM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
full of strange, female logic.
exactly my thought
09-15-2011, 04:35 AM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by yyyzzz Quote
FF's advantage is increasingly diminished and will become just a status symbol in a foreseeable future
1) BS, APS-C will never achieve the same IQ. It's physics.
2) The truth is APS-C DSLR has no future. Nikon and Canon have been losing this market this year to Sony and Samsung mirroless cams.

09-15-2011, 05:30 AM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
1) BS, APS-C will never achieve the same IQ. It's physics.
2) The truth is APS-C DSLR has no future. Nikon and Canon have been losing this market this year to Sony and Samsung mirroless cams.

1) It doesn't have to reach the same image quality. Only good enough image quality. This goal is reached long ago; APS is good enough for large fine art prints. A professional friend of mine recently sold a 3 X 2meter print for $5000 to the Norwegian Broadcasting for their office walls. It was shot with a Canon 7D. Price is what decides whats sells or not.
2) APS has a future, In fact smaller sensors have a great future (Pentax Q a case in point). FF also have a future but as an relatively expensive niche for those who want to pay premium for resolution the main market doesn't need or even want.
Nikon and Canon haven't been loosing anything to Sony or anyone else. Both set new industry record in SLR sales this year. About 95% of them not FF.
Mirrorless is a different segment in an increasingly segmented market and steal customers mostly from P&S...That's why Nikon and Canon haven't bothered with it yet; they are too busy making enough DSLR's to meet demand...
09-15-2011, 05:38 AM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
The truth is APS-C DSLR has no future. Nikon and Canon have been losing this market this year to Sony and Samsung mirroless cams.
Disagree. The market will shrink as many consumers opt for mirrorless, but pros I know use APS-C DSLR's religiously as a complement to FF (actually, many more shots on APS-C for the line journalist) and will not switch to mirrorless at all. They have too much invested in lenses, they are OVF all the way, they prefer larger bodies and grips, and the price is right.

This seeing the market as a binary either or or is flawed logic.
09-15-2011, 05:38 AM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by yyyzzz Quote
Bottomline is that Q's small sensor may not longer be a major shortcoming given the technological improvement. Counter-intuitively, Q has the potential to be a success story.

In addition the Q free the photographer from the focus limitation of "normal" photography. With a wideangle you can create images with "endless" focus closer to the way human sees the world and open up for eg landscape photography with near/far relations hitherto impossible to do photographically (with a quality camera). I may actually buy one for that reason alone....
There are not only drawbacks with smaller sensors.....
09-15-2011, 06:24 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It doesn't have to reach the same image quality. Only good enough image quality. This goal is reached long ago; APS is good enough for large fine art prints.
I agree. I think most consumers are looking for the right combination of size, price, and image quality. Right now, APS-C is the best combination of those things. Besides...the trend is towards smaller cameras, not larger, so that's where the research money will go. I expect to see continuing improvement in the smaller formats and for FF to remain relatively flat.

09-15-2011, 06:27 AM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
1) BS, APS-C will never achieve the same IQ. It's physics.
2) The truth is APS-C DSLR has no future. Nikon and Canon have been losing this market this year to Sony and Samsung mirroless cams.
2) I don't think so.
09-15-2011, 06:31 AM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote

OK, I've probably upset pretty much everyone now!
Deripaska is inveterate rogue. IMO.

Alas...No Soviet Russia. It's Oligarch Russia now.
09-15-2011, 09:14 AM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
In fact smaller sensors have a great future (Pentax Q a case in point).
RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: P-Q BCN Sales Results have Only been Good for One Week!? :-o
09-15-2011, 09:20 AM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Disagree. The market will shrink as many consumers opt for mirrorless, but pros I know use APS-C DSLR's religiously as a complement to FF (actually, many more shots on APS-C for the line journalist) and will not switch to mirrorless at all. They have too much invested in lenses, they are OVF all the way, they prefer larger bodies and grips, and the price is right.
This is Pro market. It doesn't have any relation to Pentax. Pentax is in the same league with Sony NEX, Samsung NX, etc
The audience here raves about "pentax niche" which they supposed to be compact systems for hobbyist. So, the Pentax, Nikon, Canon APS-C DSLR lineups for amateurs have no future. The statistics of this year is proving this statement to be right.

Last edited by Emacs; 09-15-2011 at 09:31 AM.
09-15-2011, 10:24 AM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Alas...No Soviet Russia. It's Oligarch Russia now.
Welcome back Ogl.

As for FF, I wonder if the kind of system-style thinking that Ricoh's putting into the GXR would help distinguish a Pentax-branded FF SLR. The support for strobes is a clear winner, as are remote LCD's, remote HDD's, etc. Pushing that down to their P&S models in the form of automated upload to Facebook/Flickr/print services/whatever might save those models from irrelevancy.

On an aside: I note from today's announced GRD IV that Ricoh hasn't made the sensor in the Q the new standard...
09-15-2011, 12:07 PM   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
. So, the Pentax, Nikon, Canon APS-C DSLR lineups for amateurs have no future. The statistics of this year is proving this statement to be right.
No. The statistics proves that (D)SLR's sells in larger numbers than ever in the history of photography...
I believe Canon alone will make more than 7 million DSLR this year if memory serves me right.
09-15-2011, 12:17 PM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
No. The statistics proves that (D)SLR's sells in larger numbers than ever in the history of photography...
I believe Canon alone will make more than 7 million DSLR this year if memory serves me right.
Canon and Nikon actually both predict increasing DSLR sales. Mirrorless takes market share, but not gross volumes. Clearly, side-by-side with mirrorless, DLSR's still sell as a separate category, and often at higher, more profitable price points than mirrorless.
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