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09-03-2011, 08:30 AM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
I sincerely wish Pentax will never produce a full frame camera body.

Not that I don't like full frame - I'm considering buying a 5D Mark III if/when Canon releases it.

I prefer Pentax continue to invest in the APS-C/K mount and Q system, which is where my interest is with this brand. I like Pentax, and I think they are one of the more innovative (or perhaps just quirky) camera brands around - I hope Ricoh will further improve the brand and the products.
So you will invest in a ff Canon and L glass and yet don't want one from Pentax given the lenses would be usable on both ff and aps-c formats. Yet you want them to develop a lone proprietary lens system which is dominated 50% with toy lenses. Many 3rd party lens makers are dropping the K-mount or reducing there offerings as it is. No way do I see the likes of Sigma et al. picking up the Q mount. the m4/3 mount is just now starting to get some decent offerings, i.e. the Olympus 12/2, 45/1.8 added to the 17/2.8 and Panny 20/1.7 and 14/2.5 and Leica 45 macro. At least now we know what Q stands for, Q(uirky) mount. :Hysterical:

09-03-2011, 09:24 AM   #17
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09-03-2011, 09:40 AM - 1 Like   #18
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Okay...fry me...but I often wonder if Pentax ought to come out with a FF version of the K1000. A FF sensor in a basic body, priced far enough below other FF cameras to make it tempting to everyone for whom AF speed isn't a consideration...studio photographers, landscape photographers, amateurs who aren't shooting sports.
09-03-2011, 09:42 AM   #19
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I agree with Ron, if Pentax won't give us FF, how about APS-H? Making it a 4:3 sensor would help with DA lens support, plus offer something unique to the market. Oh and like everyone else mentioned, I'd love a huge OVF with a super precision matte option...

09-03-2011, 09:48 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
just come out with a FF Pentax and I will worry about the lenses.
It wouldn't work; even now, people are loudly complaining there aren't enough (APS-C) lenses. It would only get worse once we're talking about cameras costing double the price of a K-5.
They have to find a way to launch a camera, few lenses (with more to follow) and make a profit of it.
09-03-2011, 09:53 AM   #21
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Pentax /Ricoh need to come out with a FF mirrorless before Canon .
09-03-2011, 10:13 AM   #22
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Different sensor size!

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
On a personal note I think that if an APS-H size sensor can pare with more DA- and DA*-lenses (excluding the wide-angle section) then I would prefer that as a new top of the line camera for Pentax. Think of having a 1,2x to 1,3x crop sensor (between 30x20mm and 27x18mm), or a big 4:3 sensor (between 28x21mm and 24,8x18,6 would be great if that works with some DA lenses). That would fit in at least 20 megapixel giving a stellar image quality with hi-iso noise free images.
I was calculating on this subject. One reason is that some of want to use lenses for the purpose they where designed for. Others want to have lenses that fit excactly into that window.

I think that the main reason is why Pentax makes a FA 43mm/f1.9 is that this is excactly the diagonal of a full frame (film) sensor. With that the FA 31mm is a good wide-angle and FA77mm is a good portrait lens.

So how would that work out with my thoughts on a different sensor size:

APS-H:
Sensorsize 29,1 x 19,4 mm (55 % larger surfase then APS-C) would give a diagonal of 35mm, for wich Pentax does make lenses. A 25mm (or 24mm/f2) would fit in the roll as a wide-angle and for portrait and 63mm (buth here 55mm is short and 77mm is on the long side).
Sensorsize 25,8 x 17,2 mm (21,6 % larger surfase then APS-C) would give a diagonal of 31mm, for wich Pentax makes the perfect lens. There should be a new wide-angle prime of 22mm or so, but the DA*55mm is in that case a very nice portraitlens.

BIG 4:3th sensor:
Sensorsize 28 x 21 mm (61 % larger surface then APS-C) would give a diagonal of 35mm, for wich Pentax does make lenses. A 25mm (or 24mm/f2) would fit in the roll as a wide-angle and for portrait 63mm (buth here 55mm is short and 77mm is on the long side).
Sensorsize 24,8 x 18,6 mm (twice the size of micro4/3 and 26 % larger surface then APS-C) would give a diagonal of 31mm, for wich Pentax makes the perfect lens. There should be a new wide-angle prime of 22mm or so, but the DA*55mm is in that case a very nice portraitlens.

I think one main reason to make such a camera/sensor is that it gives a new topcamera a place in the K-mount range while making it possible to use most of current DA- and DA* lenses that are in production. There is still a need for some new (wide-angle, normal zoom and fast tele) lenses. But the basics are covert with currently produced lenses.

I don't believe in producing a basics-only FF camera. There is no market for that is big enough to attract new users to the brand. With any new sensor made in low productionnumbers there won't be a cheap camera. This camera should have the best of wich Pentax has to offer in technics (AF, processing, sensor image quality and so on).
09-03-2011, 10:43 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Oh good, I was worried we wouldn't get another Pentax/FF thread.
I agree. I don't want to get in a losing debate as both sides (pro-FF and anti-FF) have dug in.

But in case Pentax reads these threads for market research:

I would buy a Pentax FF DSLR. Period.
I prefer that the FF DSLR is average or smaller form factor. PZ1 size is good.
I prefer FF compatible lenses to APS-C only lenses. DFA lenses are the best.
Bring back the aperture ring.
Consider a DFA 500mm f5.6.

09-03-2011, 12:04 PM - 1 Like   #24
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I literally never use autofocus. If they released a basic ff, I would almost certainly buy it. I have recently been shooting with my SF-1, and the size of the viewfinder, combined with the fact that you can really see what your minimum depth of field would be, makes it much more enjoyable than the small APS-C viewfinder. This would also be great for studio / macro, of which I do a lot.
09-03-2011, 12:18 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
So you will invest in a ff Canon and L glass and yet don't want one from Pentax given the lenses would be usable on both ff and aps-c formats. Yet you want them to develop a lone proprietary lens system which is dominated 50% with toy lenses.
Correctomundo.

I want to invest in an advanced full frame system (with state of the art AF) with a full complement of lenses.

Even if Pentax somehow manages to produce a FF camera (which I highly doubt) the AF will probably not be as good, and FA lens system also need an overhaul. I don't see the equivalent of the L200, L300 and L400 anytime soon.

If Pentax does all that it will send them bankrupt, for a potential market which is not there. If Sony couldn't succeed, with their R&D dollars and marketing might, Pentax has no chance. Sorry, full frame fanboys.

The Q on the hand is a fantastic toy camera for putting in the handbag. The lenses Pentax have announced for it (including the toy lenses) are more than adequate for me. A telephoto and a macro would complete the collection - I hear Pentax is already working on it so wish already potentially fulfilled.
09-03-2011, 12:23 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I don't believe in producing a basics-only FF camera. There is no market for that is big enough to attract new users to the brand.
It depends on the price point. Price it low enough, and sales will boom. Just look at the HP TouchPad frenzy.

QuoteQuote:
With any new sensor made in low productionnumbers there won't be a cheap camera. This camera should have the best of wich Pentax has to offer in technics (AF, processing, sensor image quality and so on).
And there's the nub: How to make it cheap enough to be affordable for new customers, but still good enough to be Pentax? And what business model to use?

* Plan 1: Don't sell FF at all; ignore the FF field and concentrate elsewhere.
* Plan 2: Sell cameras at a loss, make a profit on lenses, like Gillette's razors.
* Plan 3: Sell for profit; this may require some breakthrough technology and glitz.

Plan 1 looks like where Pentax-Ricoh may be going, if there are no great surprises.
Plan 2 requires corporate cojones [courage+audacity] and likely isn't workable.

Plan 3... well, there are a couple possibilities with this business model. A complete FF body won't be cheap unless it lacks many many features. Yeah, that could happen. But a GXR mountor... or rather, a family of mountors: APS-C, APS-H, 135/FF, 645D, 645/FF, 6x6, 6x7, whatever. Don't sell a new full-featured body with each sensor. This should lower costs dramatically. And with different levels of mountors, from basic entry-level to full-featured, there is a clear upgrade path for customers, a path that doesn't require sh!t-canning the lower-level technology.

My prophesy: Pentax-Ricoh will announce a K-mount large-sensor mountor soon.
09-03-2011, 12:51 PM   #27
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I agree with a couple of the responses: the major thing I miss is the larger and brighter viewfinders of the old FF film Pentax (ME, MX, LX - even the old H1a). The K-5 viewfinder is dismal in comparison. Yes, I've gotten more used to manual focus with it, but is isn't the natural joy of using a film SLR. Otherwise I find APS-C fine for IQ, and 16MP adequate. DOF is comparable, if you have the same angle of view, f-stop, and print to the same image size. Take the exact same shot with a 35 @ f2 on a K-5, and a 50 @ f2 on a FF (I use a Leica M9 - 18MP), print 13x19 of each - and it will be very hard to tell them apart. But K-5 in manual focus is harder to get exact focus compared to an LX. (and an M series Leica rangefinder is easier yet)
If I could get an MX-sized and brightness optical finder on a K-5 (life-size with a 35mm lens) I'd be happy.
09-03-2011, 03:02 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sperdynamite Quote
If Pentax can integrate just ONE full frame option, with a limited lens selection, and a great DX crop mode, I believe they'll not only have a winner camera, but also a reason for certain people to take the brand more seriously. But to be honest, at least this generation, I don't think that will happen. Despite all the "experts" in the A77 thread, I do think Sony designed a great 24mp sensor, and if the K-3 is a 24mp sensor with modest improvements over the K-5, then I'll be happy to purchase it to augment my K-5 as a new main body. However I think my wedding photography kit will be perfect when I have a Pentax full frame kit with FA Limiteds, and a DA 2nd body with DA* zooms. That's for what I'm hoping.
I agree that for Pentax to get back the popularity they had in their heyday, they should have at least one camera for each audience. We see that they are expanding their offerings after cutting back a bit on 35mm. They now have three digital systems (K, 645, and Q), so they are trying to increase their general appeal. Recent 35mm lens releases have been pretty yawn inducing from an enthusiast point of view. I wonder if it was because they were working on 645/Q or are they doing something for 35mm?

As someone who thinks I could find unique usage for a 35mm full-frame Pentax digital camera, here are the reasons (again):
- Large optical viewfinder (easier manual focus, easier to compose photos with glasses, etc)
- More usage out of my lens with a crop and no crop body.
- Depth of field considerations.
- Wide angle considerations.
- Various technical benefits like better high ISO if it turns out like that, otherwise this aspect is an afterthought for me.
- I would use both APS-C and FF camera bodies depending on the situation.
- All signs point to Pentax releasing small yet powerful cameras, so I would expect a Pentax FF to be the same.
- They made the D-FA 100mm f2.8 WR Macro lens. I'd like them to expand that line of lenses.
- Pentax users are open to primes, which we already have in FF.

Pentax has the K-5, which is more of an enthusiast camera that a straight pro one. They also have the 645D that is considered a pro camera, but it seems like a luxury field camera to me. I see a gaping hole between the K-5 and 645D for additional camera(s). The K-5 is a strong contender, especially if it is priced around the D7000. Take a step up from there and that is where I would put Pentax FF.

It would be pretty nice for users if Pentax offered a K-r Super, K-5 Super, and K-3 full-frame camera in the next iteration.
09-03-2011, 03:03 PM   #29
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Mmmmmm, Waist-level finder <drool>
09-03-2011, 05:43 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
There are 24 million FF K-mount lenses out there so just come out with a FF Pentax and I will worry about the lenses.
Your legacy glass kills future Pentax lens sales.

That's why they are not listening to you.
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