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09-21-2011, 06:21 AM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
What exactly are you folks finding 'slow', image load times, image export times, something else?
Anything slower than me is deemed slow LR is workable on a modern CPU but it has not the responsiveness I'd like it to have. It's because the software is not smart enough, it has a lot of potential for improvements IMHO. I'm writing software for a living and I know how much a simple optimization can improve the speed of a software. You may of course hit a wall, but I'm pretty sure LR is far from hitting it.

09-21-2011, 06:30 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
Anything slower than me is deemed slow LR is workable on a modern CPU but it has not the responsiveness I'd like it to have. It's because the software is not smart enough, it has a lot of potential for improvements IMHO. I'm writing software for a living and I know how much a simple optimization can improve the speed of a software. You may of course hit a wall, but I'm pretty sure LR is far from hitting it.
It does have an incredibly rich and complex GUI, many parameters can be affected which will 'change' the image right in front of your eyes, point-in-time data snapshots are being saved with every tweak you do... It's a much more complex application than a machine-code raw conversion routine that only does one non-interactive thing in a dedicated process space like a camera. Plus, it's running under an already-complex OS, that, if you're not careful, loves to give cycles to a hundred other PIDS that are there to 'help' you

I suspect that it's more 'optimized' than we realize. Although there's always room for improvement - but that last bit of improvement, if it's significant, can be the most expensive from a development standpoint.

I think that if someone developed a Linux system with specialized kernel, ported LR, and dedicated/sold that system just for image processing allowing nothing else to be installed - it would seem blazing fast on modest hardware.


.

Last edited by jsherman999; 09-21-2011 at 06:57 AM.
09-21-2011, 06:56 AM   #303
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For my use, the most annoying thing is slow disk access and/or processing of data from disk.
But... I really use a 'less than optimal' environment so ...
09-21-2011, 07:08 AM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
What exactly are you folks finding 'slow', image load times, image export times, something else?
Well I descided to change my way of working. So I go out and make sportsimages, and sometimes a real lot of them. Instead of organizing and deleting them before I was thinking of just plug the card into my pc and selected by browsing pictures in LR and then save them to my PC. I ended up waiting and waiting on writetime on the browsing part. That's why I changed the system and make everything as fast as possible. Hope that that wil speed up things.

Only a SSD would make my system more faster, so I'm considdering that.

Slow means, I'm waiting for something!

09-21-2011, 07:18 AM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I think that if someone developed a Linux system with specialized kernel, ported LR, and dedicated/sold that system just for image processing allowing nothing else to be installed - it would seem blazing fast on modest hardware.
You give too much credit to Linux, it's good but it can't do miracles. The LR performance issue is not there, especially not on modern CPU which can process 8 threads or more simultaneously. It's not a Windows problem, that I'm pretty 100% sure. The more annoying waiting time in LR is when you go to view a picture at 100%, it takes a while even on a i7 CPU (and on a Netbook it's just too painful). My workaround is to ask 1:1 rendering to a group of pictures and come back later.
09-21-2011, 07:19 AM   #306
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The slowest part in LR is the initial image load which can be a couple seconds. It doesn't bother in Develop mode which is pretty real-time once an image is loaded. But it can be annoying when doing initial selections based on 1:1 previews.

Which is why I always produce 1:1 previews (and do something else) before handling larger amounts of photos within LR. The previews must be renewed whenever development settings change. The menu option is in "Library"->"Previews". If one uses this option, LR should have no big problem dealing with large images on a slow computer.

EDIT: ManuH beats me on this

Nevertheless, LR load time could be improved by adopting a pipeline approach: apply all layers of the rendering to a tile before processding to the next tile, rather than finish layer after layer. This avoids the bottleneck of modern CPUs which is between core and DRAM. I once was famous for being able to do such things. It is costly though and I am not sure Adobe has enough people who understand all the pitfalls of this approach. There are attempts to move this into compiler technology; but except for newer versions of Fortran (High Performance Fortran HPF and newer), I am not aware of commercial solutions. And I am pretty sure Adobe won't reprogram LR in Fortran BTW, the OS plays no rôle here. Another approach is a better optimizing Java Virtual Machine which then could beat all statically compiled languages. It's because the Java bytecode contains enough information and assertions to do so. But research on this is currently slow, especially after Oracle took over... So, it will take a while until complex software will perform efficiently on modern CPU architectures.

Last edited by falconeye; 09-21-2011 at 07:39 AM.
09-21-2011, 07:42 AM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well I descided to change my way of working. So I go out and make sportsimages, and sometimes a real lot of them. Instead of organizing and deleting them before I was thinking of just plug the card into my pc and selected by browsing pictures in LR and then save them to my PC. I ended up waiting and waiting on writetime on the browsing part. That's why I changed the system and make everything as fast as possible. Hope that that wil speed up things.

Only a SSD would make my system more faster, so I'm considdering that.

Slow means, I'm waiting for something!
My new macbook air handles 645D files off the SD slot very nice. Once downloaded, LR3 is pretty fast. I love it.
09-21-2011, 10:03 AM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
You give too much credit to Linux, it's good but it can't do miracles.
It wouldn't have to be Linux, I was imagining a system dedicated to image processing, geared toward running only one app (namely LR) and only the necessary things to support and optimize it. Linux just would be easiest for a 3rd party entity to use for that purpose. IBM has been using this approach for both their supercomputers and their commercial Z-based servers and are getting pretty amazing results. I don't know if it would realize a lot of advantage on say a $800 i7 platform, but if it did, I'd be open to buying an imaging-workstation based around LR. It's probably the main thing I use my home systems for now anyway, besides web browsing, which almost any old device can be dedicated to these days.

QuoteQuote:
The LR performance issue is not there, especially not on modern CPU which can process 8 threads or more simultaneously. It's not a Windows problem, that I'm pretty 100% sure. The more annoying waiting time in LR is when you go to view a picture at 100%, it takes a while even on a i7 CPU (and on a Netbook it's just too painful). My workaround is to ask 1:1 rendering to a group of pictures and come back later.
I guess I don't do 1:1 previews, I'll have to give that a try.... Incidentally, what's the advantage of doing that, anyway? Are you working on all your images 1:1 all the time? If not, wouldn't it be easier to just enlarge the few images you do want to see 1:1 later in develop mode?


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09-21-2011, 10:06 AM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I guess I don't do 1:1 previews, I'll have to give that a try.... Incidentally, what's the advantage of doing that, anyway? Are you working on all your images 1:1 all the time? If not, wouldn't it be easier to just enlarge the few images you do want to see 1:1 later in develop mode?
I just wanted to browse true the stack and select wich ones to keep. So only the selection that is to slow to me at the time.

By the way I do make 1.000 pictures some times. :ugh:
09-21-2011, 12:42 PM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I guess I don't do 1:1 previews, I'll have to give that a try.... Incidentally, what's the advantage of doing that, anyway?
LR uses a non-desctructive workflow.

I.e., every operation (incl. default operations upon import such as demosaicing and mild denoising) must be done every time you view an image, starting from a 15MB raw file on disk.

However, if you tell LR to create an 1:1 preview, it will do it only once and whatever scale you view the image at, it will always be made available immediately from the preview cache which is 10x faster. LR will use the cached preview as long as it doesn't expire (which is user-controlled) or the development settings didn't change.


With respect to the idean of an imaging workstation, maybe Linux-based ...

I repeat myself here: None of LR's performance is OS dependent. Faster raw converters do exist. Bibble 5 is said to be pretty fast. So, it is a pure matter of optimization done in the application. For me, LR s fast enough when using the 1:1 preview cache. Once an image is loaded, LR performance actually is pretty good: almost every parameter change has a visible effect in real time.

Last edited by falconeye; 09-21-2011 at 12:47 PM.
09-21-2011, 01:10 PM   #311
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OCZ VeloDrive PCI-Express 1.2TB SSD

The OCZ VeloDrive PCI-Express 1.2TB SSD offers transfer speeds of up to 1GB/s.

OCZ VeloDrive PCI-Express 1.2TB SSD VD-HHPX8-1.2T B&H Photo
09-21-2011, 01:13 PM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Only a SSD would make my system more faster, so I'm considdering that
Do it you'll be amazed.
It will have a far greater impact than upgrading the CPU and RAM what you just did, it's like you've fitted a supercharger on your computer.
09-21-2011, 01:15 PM   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
The OCZ VeloDrive PCI-Express 1.2TB SSD offers transfer speeds of up to 1GB/s.

OCZ VeloDrive PCI-Express 1.2TB SSD VD-HHPX8-1.2T B&H Photo
Nice but be careful with those, not all motherboards like them and they aren't known to be the most stable.
If you wan't to run on OS on it, sata 3 drive is the way to go at the moment although PCIe is the future.
09-21-2011, 01:28 PM   #314
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If you want the fastest Hard Drive that is stable for your OS get a 10,000 rpm Raptor by Western Digital I been running 3 of them. One I bought many years ago and it still is the best and fastest OS drive for the money, I recently got a 300g for my Windows 7 Pro OS and have not had a problem with it either. It will transfer files Very Very fast. My OS loads in less than 40 sec. from the time I hit the start button on my case. But I'm still in the stone age compared to most of you.
When I built my latest system I was told not to use a SSD drive for my OS or for Gaming yet since they and not very reliable yet.
09-21-2011, 01:38 PM   #315
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If your having problems with stuff loading and running slow, go to your START choose RUN type msconfig in the box and click the START-UP Tab and uncheck all the boxes except your antivirus software then click OK and choose REstart your PC..
After your PC restarts click the small box in the window that opens and click OK.
Now try some of your slow loading programs.
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