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09-06-2011, 12:43 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
I am pretty sure anybody buying a Q and some toys as their first interchangeable lens camera is not going to jump from that to FF. They will go to a Kr. People that will trade up to FF will come from the Kr or K5 levels...
Actually, I don't think you can presume to speak for those buying a Q and what they may or may not do. As I alluded to earlier, the marketing research that Pentax did (which I translated from Japanese in another thread) suggests that the target market is not necessarily beginners, although part of the target market certainly will be.

However, you are right in that even if the Q is wildly successful, that does not necessarily create a viable business case for Pentax to release a full frame camera. If I was a Q owner, I won't necessarily feel any loyalty to Pentax - I may as well buy an established market leader if I want full frame. (which is exactly what I was trying to say earlier except some poor misguided souls think this must be because I am a Canon fangirl - even though I don't own any Canon SLRs at the moment!)

However, if Pentax becomes a major player due to the success of cameras like the Q (unlikely, but we can all hope) then Ricoh /Pentax may be more inclined to create a full frame camera to complement their existing range. Who knows? Companies do change their marketing and product strategies over time. Pentax's current strategy to be quirky (with colours, themed/skinnable cameras, etc.) is probably a reflection of a limited R&D budget. With a bigger R&D budget, Pentax may well feel they can challenge Canon and Nikon on their own turf.

09-06-2011, 12:46 PM   #122
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Exactly.
09-06-2011, 01:10 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
With a bigger R&D budget, Pentax may well feel they can challenge Canon and Nikon on their own turf.
I don't see Pentax doing that, even with Ricoh behind them. That's just a very, very tall mountain to climb. I look for Pentax to do a bit of a side-step and offer an alternative of some sort. The pancake Limited lenses are a good example. They're not the fastest lenses available, but they're hard to beat on a "size/IQ" basis.
09-06-2011, 01:18 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
I don't see Pentax doing that, even with Ricoh behind them. That's just a very, very tall mountain to climb. I look for Pentax to do a bit of a side-step and offer an alternative of some sort. The pancake Limited lenses are a good example. They're not the fastest lenses available, but they're hard to beat on a "size/IQ" basis.
I agree with you completely. I was just trying to give some rope for the full frame fanboys. :-)

09-06-2011, 01:33 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
I agree with you completely. I was just trying to give some rope for the full frame fanboys. :-)
That's fine as long as there is a ff canon fangirl at the other end of the rope.


:Camera:
09-06-2011, 01:50 PM   #126
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Pentax will release a MF mirrorless in a body the size of the K-5 with grip.
The EFV would be like a zillion pixels - indistinguishable from an OVF.

THAT would be something.
09-06-2011, 03:12 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
That's fine as long as there is a ff canon fangirl at the other end of the rope.
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09-06-2011, 03:24 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Pentax's current strategy to be quirky (with colours, themed/skinnable cameras, etc.) is probably a reflection of a limited R&D budget. With a bigger R&D budget, Pentax may well feel they can challenge Canon and Nikon on their own turf.
Good points. The quirky strategy certainly maintained sales and market visibility without requiring too much R&D expense.

But another Pentax trait is a willingness and ability to keep things on the back-burner for a long time until the technology and marketplace is ready for them to achieve what they want. The 645D and the Q are a case in point - both sat in the Pentax labs for a LONG time until the right sensor etc came along for what they wanted to achieve.

It is entirely possible that the same thing may be happening with their full-frame plans. They built a FF prototype a long time ago but judged that the sensors and other technology at the time were not great so they didn't launch a product. Maybe now they may be feeling differently, particularly if Sony is cooking up newer, cheaper, better FF sensors that they may be able to use.

09-06-2011, 06:00 PM   #129
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R&D doesn't drive demand, execution, marketing, and sales force do. The 645D broke no new ground save as positioning in a lower tier market space.

Even mirrorless is not an R&D innovation. They're effectively bridge cams with ILC. Most of the innovation now is in software and sensors, not optics.

Pentax refines more than innovated. It makes pancake lenses and slightly smaller bodies.

The question is not whether Pentax will move to FF but whether FF will move to Pentax.
09-06-2011, 08:12 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
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Think about it . . .


All sizes | Canon girl | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Edit: On a similar note, an oldie but goodie . . .


Last edited by Blue; 09-06-2011 at 08:54 PM.
09-07-2011, 07:00 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Pentax will release a MF mirrorless in a body the size of the K-5 with grip.
The EFV would be like a zillion pixels - indistinguishable from an OVF.

THAT would be something.
Heh, a digital version of the old folding cameras? Or their brand new heir, the Fuji GF670?
09-07-2011, 07:41 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Heh, a digital version of the old folding cameras? Or their brand new heir, the Fuji GF670?
Lol, such a folding digital camera would be a dust magnet!
09-07-2011, 07:45 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Heh, a digital version of the old folding cameras?
That is something I have been writing about / predicting for awhile now. A digital 6x7 or 6x9 folder, about 180-240mpx sensor, with Teflon bellows, and a solenoid-driven interchangeable AF lensboard with full movements. A lensboard may contain a prime lens or a short-range zoom. The minimal version will have no LCD screen; images will be bluetoothed to the user's VR goggles. With a remote control, a user needn't touch the camera, let alone bring it to their face. It's my dream!
09-07-2011, 07:54 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
That is something I have been writing about / predicting for awhile now. A digital 6x7 or 6x9 folder, about 180-240mpx sensor, with Teflon bellows, and a solenoid-driven interchangeable AF lensboard with full movements. A lensboard may contain a prime lens or a short-range zoom. The minimal version will have no LCD screen; images will be bluetoothed to the user's VR goggles. With a remote control, a user needn't touch the camera, let alone bring it to their face. It's my dream!
That is even a very good idea, but loosing the 25 $ LCD screen won't make it a cheap camera.
09-07-2011, 07:55 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
That is something I have been writing about / predicting for awhile now. A digital 6x7 or 6x9 folder, about 180-240mpx sensor, with Teflon bellows, and a solenoid-driven interchangeable AF lensboard with full movements. A lensboard may contain a prime lens or a short-range zoom. The minimal version will have no LCD screen; images will be bluetoothed to the user's VR goggles. With a remote control, a user needn't touch the camera, let alone bring it to their face. It's my dream!
Put a bellows on it (teflon or otherwise) and the only people that will buy them are sexagenarians and porkpie wearing hipsters.

I'm thinking more along these lines:


(from Photo Utopia: Fuji 6x7 Rangefinder)

Interchangeable lenses though.

Last edited by johnmflores; 09-07-2011 at 08:12 AM.
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