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09-23-2011, 12:18 AM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by garyk Quote
Pentax is SMALL I personally will not invest in long term Pentax. Only a fool would at this point.
Yes, we're all clueless idiots. Thank you for enlightening us.

09-23-2011, 06:20 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I'm beginning to think that this may actually work. With the Da40 it would look really compact. Now add a zoom lens that collapses INTO the body and a few primes that extends into the body (and are as small as the DA40 outside the mount), and it may turn out just as compact as the Nikon 1 system.

Yes, it should work and with the Q having the small ends anchored there is a good reason to go with a larger (K-r) size MILC. Having a K-mount can be an advantage. If the MILC camera doesn't take K-mount lenses without lousing AF I might just as well go with some other mirrorless system. If the camera processing power is fast enough PD AF on the sensor should make our K-mount lenses AF just as fast as they do now on the K-5. So there will be no need for a new CD-AF lenses.

Dave
09-23-2011, 06:44 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Why not? Replace the pentamirror with an (ever-improving) EVF placed neatly in one corner and you've got quite a usable form factor with an improved viewfinder. It's bigger than the Sonys and Samsung units, but: it will certainly be distinguished from the Q, the GXR, the Sonys, and the Samsung lines.
The viewfinder of the Kx or Kr are simply good, replacing it with an EVF won't make them automaticly better and there are some other things.
The camera needs to power the sensor and the lcd to give you a view, an mirrored system does this without any power and because the sensor isn't used it doesn't heat up either.
The warmer the sensor gets the more noise it generates, also sensors don't live forever, they wear down over time.

Yes it will certainly distinguished from the other CSC except the 4/3th mount and you see where they went...
09-23-2011, 06:50 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by Don From The Radio Quote
Do we really need new lenses? I thought the whole idea of the K system is that we have 40+ years of lenses to choose from.

A full frame body is all I require.
Well yes we need new lenses because the old aren't made.

Full frame might be fun for some but certainly not for me if there won't come any new lenses, i ain't going to search eBay all month just to find the lens i want.
I just want to go into a store and buy one.

So yes new lenses must be made for APS-C, i'm still waiting for some nice primes (not budget).
And now a days i'm spoiled with the quick-shift... i really do miss it when a lens doesn't have that.

09-23-2011, 07:27 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
Yes, it should work and with the Q having the small ends anchored there is a good reason to go with a larger (K-r) size MILC. Having a K-mount can be an advantage. If the MILC camera doesn't take K-mount lenses without lousing AF I might just as well go with some other mirrorless system. If the camera processing power is fast enough PD AF on the sensor should make our K-mount lenses AF just as fast as they do now on the K-5. So there will be no need for a new CD-AF lenses.

Dave
I think this image (from user tsammyc in a different thread):



shows that such a camera could possibly look quite similar to a NEX-like camera (the Sony E-mount lenses are mostly bigger than that adapter+DA40 combo).

On the other hand, why not make a new mount and an adapter after all? If Pentax can manage the technological feat of creating a compact and good-looking screw-drive supporting adapter for their new system - which supports pretty good AF (yes, I know that would be difficult, but I don't think it's impossible?), and they would sell kits that included the adapter, they would have the most attractive mirrorless system on the market, because all those limiteds would look so good on such a camera. And they would really only need two new "native" lenses for the system: A super compact kit zoom and a ~24 mm pancake.
09-23-2011, 08:02 AM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
On the other hand, why not make a new mount and an adapter after all?
It might sound good but they also need to make lenses for that mount as well.
I just can't see how Pentax will manage that?

If they want to make a bigger mirrorless they should make it with a k-mount or not at all in my opinion.
Pentax has the Q and that's enough i believe, if you want something more serious there is the Kr and the K5, i can't see what a mirrorless camera will add to this line.
I rather see them putting some more time in creating some new lenses because Pentax is still lacking some long lenses for example and a better flash system might also be nice.

Maybe they should create an all new system based on blue tooth or something like that, wouldn't it be something if you can control your flashes from a pc or smartphone?
Maybe i should patent that idea...
09-23-2011, 08:06 AM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
It might sound good but they also need to make lenses for that mount as well.
I just can't see how Pentax will manage that?
As I said, IF (big if!) they manage to make a good-looking, well working adapter, they would only need two native lenses to start with (and would still have a much more attractive lens lineup than Sony!).

QuoteQuote:
Pentax has the Q and that's enough i believe, if you want something more serious there is the Kr and the K5, i can't see what a mirrorless camera will add to this line
My daughter just won a photo competition, and won photo equipment of her choice (it will be her first system camera, she borrowed her sister's K100D for the winner shot), enough to buy a K-5 with two lenses.

But she's still contemplating the NEX-7 and other advanced mirrorless cameras. Why? Because she wants a camera that's lightweight and small enough to be with her almost all the time. The K-5, or even the K-r, is just too heavy and big. A similar (to the NEX-7) mirrorless Pentax with a good adapter supporting screw drive AF would be her dream camera (because she could then borrow from my and my daughter's K-mount lenses).

Last edited by gazonk; 09-23-2011 at 08:11 AM.
09-23-2011, 10:07 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote

My daughter just won a photo competition, and won photo equipment of her choice (it will be her first system camera, she borrowed her sister's K100D for the winner shot), enough to buy a K-5 with two lenses.

But she's still contemplating the NEX-7 and other advanced mirrorless cameras. Why? Because she wants a camera that's lightweight and small enough to be with her almost all the time. The K-5, or even the K-r, is just too heavy and big. A similar (to the NEX-7) mirrorless Pentax with a good adapter supporting screw drive AF would be her dream camera (because she could then borrow from my and my daughter's K-mount lenses).
Congratulations to your daughter and what an opportunity.

I think the problem with the current NEX models for your daughter's purpose, is they aren't very pocketable with that zoom lens installed, and i think there is only one prime and one zoom so far available. She might want to check out the Panasonic and Olympus offerings with more lens availability because of interchangeability between the brands. I don't suppose she could wait for a Pentax model.

09-23-2011, 10:09 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Congratulations to your daughter and what an opportunity.

I think the problem with the current NEX models for your daughter's purpose, is they aren't very pocketable with that zoom lens installed, and i think there is only one prime and one zoom so far available. She might want to check out the Panasonic and Olympus offerings with more lens availability because of interchangeability between the brands. I don't suppose she could wait for a Pentax model.
There are four primes and three zooms available or about to be available (in a month or so).
09-23-2011, 10:16 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
As I said, IF (big if!) they manage to make a good-looking, well working adapter, they would only need two native lenses to start with (and would still have a much more attractive lens lineup than Sony!).
Yes you won't need much lenses that way but then still it will cost resources that are i think better spend elsewhere.
One thing they might do is stop producing K-mount lenses.
The K-mount is designed for 135/FF, they could make the camera smaller by using a mount designed for APS-C, this will off course kill all dreams for a Pentax FF camera but with a slightly larger mount and a shorter register distance they can make cameras smaller and produce faster lenses for it.
Standard zoom lenses with f/2 for example, or standard primes f/1 and probably faster can be made won't be dreams any more.
They might even be able to offer some counter weight against the Nikon and Canon 135/FF cameras that way, the APS-C sensor is mature enough to be seen as professional solution now if they can offer the same quality lenses and the some kind of DOFs but with a much smaller system they might have something.

They can make the cheaper camera simply mirror less to press the cost and they might be slightly bigger then what other offers but you've a complete system to grow in.

Hopefully Ricoh is daring enough.
As long as they provide a good K-mount adapter, i doubt many would mind the switch.

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
But she's still contemplating the NEX-7 and other advanced mirrorless cameras. Why? Because she wants a camera that's lightweight and small enough to be with her almost all the time. The K-5, or even the K-r, is just too heavy and big. A similar (to the NEX-7) mirrorless Pentax with a good adapter supporting screw drive AF would be her dream camera (because she could then borrow from my and my daughter's K-mount lenses).
The camera is indeed small but the lenses are just as big, therefore the little you gain with the smaller size and weight is only relative very small when you've 2 or 3 lenses.
Besides that, with the larger lenses like f/2.8 zooms for example i like to have a slightly bigger body that's also heavier because the balance and handling would then be so much better. I believe i'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Therefore if you want to get more serious the DSLR's we have now are still the best choice.

The Nex 7 looks good on paper but just go to the store and make a little setup.
I wanted to say get a Pentax K5 + DA*16-50 + DA*50-135 and compare with... but besides the CZ Sonnar 24 mm f/1.8 NEX doesn't have any higher end lenses.
So you end up comparing the K5 + 18-55 + 50-200 with the NEX7 + 18-55 + 55-210, i'm pretty sure it doesn't make any difference in size.
The only real small lens Sony has is the 16mm, for the rest the other primes aren't that larger but they won't be much smaller then a K5 or Kr with a limited lens.

I never understood Sony reasons with the NEX, it just doesn't make much sense when you look at the whole system they have now.
If you want something small Olympus or Panasonic has better system, not sure about Nikon, their lenses don't look that small... the Q also got the message right although they are taking a gamble with the really small sensor, hopefully it works out.
09-23-2011, 10:21 AM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
There are four primes and three zooms available or about to be available (in a month or so).
The only one interesting is the 16mm lens for the rest all their lenses are just as large as you find with pentax.
I need to try this but a Pentax camera + all the limited might make a smaller system then a NEX with all their prime lenses.
09-23-2011, 10:33 AM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
she wants a camera that's lightweight and small enough to be with her almost all the time. The K-5, or even the K-r, is just too heavy and big.
As someone with a NEX-5, I can say that there isn't that much physical difference between a NEX-5 and a K-x, especially once you mount a lens on the NEX. The NEX system cameras are not what I would call lightweight and small by any means.

With all but the 16mm Sony pancake mounted, NEX's are pretty substantial devices, and the NEX-7 is larger even than the NEX-5.

Any portability concerns with something like the K-5 may be alleviated by use of a funky and compact camera bag, I suggest. Indeed, once you are using a camera bag, lightweight and small becomes a relative issue. The same size bag for a NEX-7 and a few lenses would probably fit a K-5 with a few lenses too.
09-23-2011, 10:46 AM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
It might sound good but they also need to make lenses for that mount as well.
I just can't see how Pentax will manage that?

If they want to make a bigger mirrorless they should make it with a k-mount or not at all in my opinion.
Pentax has the Q and that's enough i believe, if you want something more serious there is the Kr and the K5, i can't see what a mirrorless camera will add to this line.
I rather see them putting some more time in creating some new lenses because Pentax is still lacking some long lenses for example and a better flash system might also be nice.

Maybe they should create an all new system based on blue tooth or something like that, wouldn't it be something if you can control your flashes from a pc or smartphone?
Maybe i should patent that idea...
I see this as a lateral move and Pentax might as well not introduce a new mirrorless. It doesn't shrink the size enough to make a big difference. It makes more sense to produce a mirrorless APSC with a full size grip (for battery life and ergo) and combine it with a redesigned set of DA ltd primes (obviously named something else). You'll need to include a couple of zooms (like the two kit lenses). This isn't something that people want to put in their pocket but rather reduce the weight around their neck and reduce the bulk in their backpack. I definitely want this since hiking and traveling are my hobbies (practically my life).

So far I think the mirrorless products out there have not been perfectly executed. There's a lot to like about the NEX (lenses and weight) but it has poor ergo and the lenses ended up somewhat large or unspectacular (the 16mm pancake). m4/3 doesn't quite match up in IQ. The Samsung is one I need to look at a little more though. I remember liking it.
09-23-2011, 11:10 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I'm beginning to think that this may actually work. With the Da40 it would look really compact. Now add a zoom lens that collapses INTO the body and a few primes that extends into the body (and are as small as the DA40 outside the mount), and it may turn out just as compact as the Nikon 1 system.
Sure! Aside from the collapsing mount idea, which just seems like trouble. What I have in mind is a APS-C MILC similar to the Panasonic L1. APS-C requires large lenses, why shrink the body beyond current entry DSLR size?

QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Yes it will certainly distinguished from the other CSC except the 4/3th mount and you see where they went...
Not sure the connection you're making, but I note that the 4/3 SLR's had optical viewfinders (which were even worse than the APS-C pentamirror viewfinders, which, IMHO, are a major disincentive).
09-23-2011, 11:56 AM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
But she's still contemplating the NEX-7 and other advanced mirrorless cameras. Why? Because she wants a camera that's lightweight and small enough to be with her almost all the time. The K-5, or even the K-r, is just too heavy and big. A similar (to the NEX-7) mirrorless Pentax with a good adapter supporting screw drive AF would be her dream camera (because she could then borrow from my and my daughter's K-mount lenses).
congrats on that and let her buy V1 since that looks like a real smart system (wich Nex isn't).
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