EXCLUSIVE: Ricoh to Beef Up Digital Camera Biz

Mareket · 09-22-2011, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by russell2pi

Why? You only have to look at a DSLR next to a 70s/80s vintage SLR with the exact same registration distance to see that a huge reduction in camera size is possible without reducing sensor-to-mount distance. (And that's with a full-frame sensor!)

THIS all the way. If Pentax managed to make a DSLR that has as solid, small and usable as the LX then they would be on to a winner. Ditch the shutter dial and wind on arm, put the top LCD in their place, keep shutter on top, but have an optional landscape grip for better ergonomics. Maybe make it a bit thicker to accomodate SR and the rear LCD.

They must be able to do it. And then the reverance Pentax had for producing excellent photographic tools would be revitalised methinks. They could make a low end one to woo the retro loving market out there, and then a more professional one that skimps on the look slightly to make sure it's easier to use.

fast50 · 09-22-2011, 03:57 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by maxfield_photo

Why worry about 2cm when you're going to be mounting lenses that are up to 10 times longer? So it can fit in your pocket? Please!

Indeed. Nikon made the same blunder, showing the world photos of its "revolutionary" V1 with a oil drum of a superzoom stuck on the front. Just to make it even bigger, they stuck VR and power zoom into the lens. No wonder it has a 72mm filter thread.

fast50 · 09-22-2011, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Originally posted by russell2pi*:

Why? You only have to look at a DSLR next to a 70s/80s vintage SLR with the exact same registration distance to see that a huge reduction in camera size is possible without reducing sensor-to-mount distance. (And that's with a full-frame sensor!)

No, it is not possible.

Not impossible, but difficult.

**Rondec** · 09-22-2011, 04:19 AM

I am convinced that few people buy semi pro or professional cameras based on size alone. That may be part of the equation, but it is a fairly minor factor after all of the specs are considered. Stripping out functionality in favor of a smaller body is a losing proposition for any camera maker in this part of the market. To me, it is more important for Pentax to measure up in specs (buffer size, fps, etc) than to try to get the tiniest camera out there.

On the whole mirrorless subject, I can deal with EVFs, but I hate the idea of composing with the rear LCD. It is just not adequate for shooting in many situations. Once you stick a largish lens on a mirrorless camera, as others have mentioned, any size advantage seems to disappear and in fact, in many ways it is harder to handle the camera/lens combo than if you have a decent sized camera body. I really think it is going to be quite a while before the upper end market really buys into the mirrorless concept. I think they'll keep their 100 percent optical viewfinders and pentaprisms for a while.

jogiba · 09-22-2011, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by fast50

Indeed. Nikon made the same blunder, showing the world photos of its "revolutionary" V1 with a oil drum of a superzoom stuck on the front. Just to make it even bigger, they stuck VR and power zoom into the lens. No wonder it has a 72mm filter thread.

The Panasonic 14-140mm F4-5.8 has smaller 62mm filters for the larger MFT sensor.

**Aristophanes** · 09-22-2011, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by fast50

Not impossible, but difficult.

Unless there is a better system for electronic circuitry than a printed circuit board it is not possible, at least not from Pentax.

Look at the size of the full-featured NEX-7. Mirrorless, APS-C and big. Even getting rid of the mirror cannot make up for the electronic support systems.

uccemebug · 09-22-2011, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

A k mount CSC will be roughly the same size as the Kx or Km with the viewfinder taken off, not worth it in my opinion.

Why not? Replace the pentamirror with an (ever-improving) EVF placed neatly in one corner and you've got quite a usable form factor with an improved viewfinder. It's bigger than the Sonys and Samsung units, but: it will certainly be distinguished from the Q, the GXR, the Sonys, and the Samsung lines.

garyk · 09-22-2011, 06:19 PM

These company's are about dollars and cents. Pentax is SMALL I personally will not invest in long term Pentax. Only a fool would at this point. When I retired I was a fool. I forgot all my experience in the business world and invested in Pentax without researching it. Life is like business. What business model is right for YOU. Which business is heading in the direction you are heading. All feelings aside ( this is the key to success ). Which is not immune to the extremely educated people. I cannot believe people follow a dream not a long term projection and adjust there buying to accompany they're goal. instead of following a dream with hard earned money. People are amazing and play into the corporatism scam.

Here is a small copy and post i agree with,.

"However, they are going to have to rationalise what, from a business perspective, is a very disjointed product lineup with massive inherent inefficiencies. Having to design a lens lineup for 645, K series, Q series, GXR series and any future CSC series will reduce each lens lineup to a mere trickle of new products. Developing new lenses is a hugely expensive undertaking and the sales volumes do not support more than one premium and two other lenses a year across all systems. If you only have one system, no problem. If you have five, it is. I don't see how they could introduce a CSC APSC model right now without suspending all other lens development for three years.

"Possibly why Pentax users are complaining about a lack of new glass for the K. The answer is simple. 645D and Q took all the designers away.

"I don't see Ricoh scrapping the K series. I expect to see APSC SLRs and lenses in Pentax K designation for a while. My big question is which other lens mounts and lines will they maintain?

RioRico · 09-22-2011, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by garyk

I personally will not invest in long term Pentax. Only a fool would at this point.

OK, have fun with Nikon.

**Jack** · 09-22-2011, 07:04 PM

"Having to design a lens lineup for 645, K series, Q series, GXR series and any future CSC series will reduce each lens lineup to a mere trickle of new products. Developing new lenses is a hugely expensive undertaking and the sales volumes do not support more than one premium and two other lenses a year across all systems."

For the K series they can start the FA series back up along with the 645 series. Maybe with a few upgrades without reinventing the wheel. In a couple of weeks maybe we'll know more.

filorp · 09-22-2011, 07:11 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by garyk

Possibly why Pentax users are complaining about a lack of new glass for the K. The answer is simple. 645D and Q took all the designers away

lets face the true guys tamron and especially sigma is been saving our A....

**Aristophanes** · 09-22-2011, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

OK, have fun with Nikon.

One can.

rawr · 09-22-2011, 10:02 PM - **1 Like**

You will find all of the criticisms being made of Pentax in this thread being made of Nikon now on other forums online.

As Anon aptly said in one of those Nikon threads:

Quote:

>implying that multi-million-dollar international corporations could possibly know more than a handful of neckbeards on the internet

seriously, dude. those companies are out of touch. we're the true arbiters of taste and market position.

Don From The Radio · 09-22-2011, 10:48 PM - **1 Like**

Do we really need new lenses? I thought the whole idea of the K system is that we have 40+ years of lenses to choose from.

A full frame body is all I require.

gazonk · 09-22-2011, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by uccemebug

Why not? Replace the pentamirror with an (ever-improving) EVF placed neatly in one corner and you've got quite a usable form factor with an improved viewfinder. It's bigger than the Sonys and Samsung units, but: it will certainly be distinguished from the Q, the GXR, the Sonys, and the Samsung lines.

I'm beginning to think that this may actually work. With the Da40 it would look really compact. Now add a zoom lens that collapses INTO the body and a few primes that extends into the body (and are as small as the DA40 outside the mount), and it may turn out just as compact as the Nikon 1 system.

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09-22-2011, 02:55 AM	#181
Mareket Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Chester Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 719	Originally posted by russell2pi Why? You only have to look at a DSLR next to a 70s/80s vintage SLR with the exact same registration distance to see that a huge reduction in camera size is possible without reducing sensor-to-mount distance. (And that's with a full-frame sensor!) THIS all the way. If Pentax managed to make a DSLR that has as solid, small and usable as the LX then they would be on to a winner. Ditch the shutter dial and wind on arm, put the top LCD in their place, keep shutter on top, but have an optional landscape grip for better ergonomics. Maybe make it a bit thicker to accomodate SR and the rear LCD. They must be able to do it. And then the reverance Pentax had for producing excellent photographic tools would be revitalised methinks. They could make a low end one to woo the retro loving market out there, and then a more professional one that skimps on the look slightly to make sure it's easier to use.

09-22-2011, 03:57 AM - 1 Like	#182
fast50 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 86	Originally posted by maxfield_photo Why worry about 2cm when you're going to be mounting lenses that are up to 10 times longer? So it can fit in your pocket? Please! Indeed. Nikon made the same blunder, showing the world photos of its "revolutionary" V1 with a oil drum of a superzoom stuck on the front. Just to make it even bigger, they stuck VR and power zoom into the lens. No wonder it has a 72mm filter thread.

09-22-2011, 04:09 AM	#183
fast50 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 86	Originally posted by Aristophanes Originally posted by russell2pi*: Why? You only have to look at a DSLR next to a 70s/80s vintage SLR with the exact same registration distance to see that a huge reduction in camera size is possible without reducing sensor-to-mount distance. (And that's with a full-frame sensor!) No, it is not possible. Not impossible, but difficult.

09-22-2011, 04:19 AM	#184
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	I am convinced that few people buy semi pro or professional cameras based on size alone. That may be part of the equation, but it is a fairly minor factor after all of the specs are considered. Stripping out functionality in favor of a smaller body is a losing proposition for any camera maker in this part of the market. To me, it is more important for Pentax to measure up in specs (buffer size, fps, etc) than to try to get the tiniest camera out there. On the whole mirrorless subject, I can deal with EVFs, but I hate the idea of composing with the rear LCD. It is just not adequate for shooting in many situations. Once you stick a largish lens on a mirrorless camera, as others have mentioned, any size advantage seems to disappear and in fact, in many ways it is harder to handle the camera/lens combo than if you have a decent sized camera body. I really think it is going to be quite a while before the upper end market really buys into the mirrorless concept. I think they'll keep their 100 percent optical viewfinders and pentaprisms for a while.

09-22-2011, 05:35 AM	#185
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by fast50 Indeed. Nikon made the same blunder, showing the world photos of its "revolutionary" V1 with a oil drum of a superzoom stuck on the front. Just to make it even bigger, they stuck VR and power zoom into the lens. No wonder it has a 72mm filter thread. The Panasonic 14-140mm F4-5.8 has smaller 62mm filters for the larger MFT sensor.

09-22-2011, 06:24 AM	#186
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by fast50 Not impossible, but difficult. Unless there is a better system for electronic circuitry than a printed circuit board it is not possible, at least not from Pentax. Look at the size of the full-featured NEX-7. Mirrorless, APS-C and big. Even getting rid of the mirror cannot make up for the electronic support systems.

09-22-2011, 02:53 PM	#187
uccemebug Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by Anvh A k mount CSC will be roughly the same size as the Kx or Km with the viewfinder taken off, not worth it in my opinion. Why not? Replace the pentamirror with an (ever-improving) EVF placed neatly in one corner and you've got quite a usable form factor with an improved viewfinder. It's bigger than the Sonys and Samsung units, but: it will certainly be distinguished from the Q, the GXR, the Sonys, and the Samsung lines.

09-22-2011, 06:19 PM	#188
garyk Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 488	These company's are about dollars and cents. Pentax is SMALL I personally will not invest in long term Pentax. Only a fool would at this point. When I retired I was a fool. I forgot all my experience in the business world and invested in Pentax without researching it. Life is like business. What business model is right for YOU. Which business is heading in the direction you are heading. All feelings aside ( this is the key to success ). Which is not immune to the extremely educated people. I cannot believe people follow a dream not a long term projection and adjust there buying to accompany they're goal. instead of following a dream with hard earned money. People are amazing and play into the corporatism scam. Here is a small copy and post i agree with,. "However, they are going to have to rationalise what, from a business perspective, is a very disjointed product lineup with massive inherent inefficiencies. Having to design a lens lineup for 645, K series, Q series, GXR series and any future CSC series will reduce each lens lineup to a mere trickle of new products. Developing new lenses is a hugely expensive undertaking and the sales volumes do not support more than one premium and two other lenses a year across all systems. If you only have one system, no problem. If you have five, it is. I don't see how they could introduce a CSC APSC model right now without suspending all other lens development for three years. "Possibly why Pentax users are complaining about a lack of new glass for the K. The answer is simple. 645D and Q took all the designers away. "I don't see Ricoh scrapping the K series. I expect to see APSC SLRs and lenses in Pentax K designation for a while. My big question is which other lens mounts and lines will they maintain?

09-22-2011, 06:27 PM	#189
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263 Original Poster	Originally posted by garyk I personally will not invest in long term Pentax. Only a fool would at this point. OK, have fun with Nikon.

09-22-2011, 07:04 PM	#190
Jack Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Georgia Photos: Gallery Posts: 197	"Having to design a lens lineup for 645, K series, Q series, GXR series and any future CSC series will reduce each lens lineup to a mere trickle of new products. Developing new lenses is a hugely expensive undertaking and the sales volumes do not support more than one premium and two other lenses a year across all systems." For the K series they can start the FA series back up along with the 645 series. Maybe with a few upgrades without reinventing the wheel. In a couple of weeks maybe we'll know more.

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09-22-2011, 07:11 PM - 1 Like	#191
filorp Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 398	Originally posted by garyk Possibly why Pentax users are complaining about a lack of new glass for the K. The answer is simple. 645D and Q took all the designers away lets face the true guys tamron and especially sigma is been saving our A....

09-22-2011, 07:24 PM	#192
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by RioRico OK, have fun with Nikon. One can.

09-22-2011, 10:02 PM - 1 Like	#193
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	You will find all of the criticisms being made of Pentax in this thread being made of Nikon now on other forums online. As Anon aptly said in one of those Nikon threads: Quote: >implying that multi-million-dollar international corporations could possibly know more than a handful of neckbeards on the internet seriously, dude. those companies are out of touch. we're the true arbiters of taste and market position.

09-22-2011, 10:48 PM - 1 Like	#194
Don From The Radio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Delaware Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 344	Do we really need new lenses? I thought the whole idea of the K system is that we have 40+ years of lenses to choose from. A full frame body is all I require.

09-22-2011, 11:32 PM	#195
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by uccemebug Why not? Replace the pentamirror with an (ever-improving) EVF placed neatly in one corner and you've got quite a usable form factor with an improved viewfinder. It's bigger than the Sonys and Samsung units, but: it will certainly be distinguished from the Q, the GXR, the Sonys, and the Samsung lines. I'm beginning to think that this may actually work. With the Da40 it would look really compact. Now add a zoom lens that collapses INTO the body and a few primes that extends into the body (and are as small as the DA40 outside the mount), and it may turn out just as compact as the Nikon 1 system.