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12-18-2007, 03:51 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Ummm..Cannot answer directly. But may I ask? Would it be considered more Pro?

Ben

Don't think so. I would prefer a sensitively higher Sync shutter time

I don't know... 1/250--- or maybe 1/400....

Another thing that should be useful, it's a really complete P-TTL commander option thru the integrated pop-up flash, like the D200, for instance.

12-18-2007, 03:47 PM   #62
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To increse sales...

surely Pentax will make the k20d default setting crisp and vivid. Point and shooters will be happy, the reviewers will be happy and with lots of adjustable settings we will be happy. Even if its not an entry level camera its important to impress people like Phil.
12-18-2007, 05:29 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by schufosi777 Quote
surely Pentax will make the k20d default setting crisp and vivid. Point and shooters will be happy, the reviewers will be happy and with lots of adjustable settings we will be happy. Even if its not an entry level camera its important to impress people like Phil.
If they're going to change the default to more "crisp and vivid" meaning using the edge sharpening option, at least they should choose a setting that really minimizes halos.

If they choose the same minimal textural sharpness Natural setting as default - this is not a bad thing as long as there are settings to bring up that punchy sharpness if desired (unlike the weak attempt of the K10D Bright mode)

Though with the biggest reviewers stupidly only using default settings, it might be wise to cater a bit to that.
12-19-2007, 12:15 AM   #64
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In fact I don't care much reviewers concluding with a con "Jpeg not sharp by default settings". I don't care really, but then they should also try to find the sweet spot (according to them) and test against other cameras set the same way.

That would be an acceptable review. Obviously DpR is anything but that.

12-19-2007, 01:01 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
they should also try to find the sweet spot (according to them) and test against other cameras set the same way.

Obviously DpR is anything but that.
They did that with the E-510, and tested it for far longer than the K10D. When comparing samples with the optimal E-510 settings they discovered (using the tack sharp 50mm f/2 Macro) to the default K10D settings they quickly did with the soft 50mm f1.4 - the comment was, "we've already made clear that the K10D has a poor jpg engine" - to paraphrase.

People buy cameras based by placing gospel in those reviews.
12-19-2007, 02:08 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
People buy cameras based by placing gospel in those reviews.
I agree Mutley what I meant is that in a recent review DpR bashed the K10D for its jpeg engine but tweaked the D200. Why not tweak the K10D too then? This is apple to orange comparison and basicaly means that DpR reviews are crap.
12-19-2007, 03:16 AM   #67
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All testers (not only DPREVIEW) paid attention at D200's default jpeg - and called it SOFT, PLEASANT SOFT or even FILM LIKE (as K10D),
but never BAD or POOR,
but I don't understand why nobody never tweaks K10D jpeg in test if they think that digital like jpeg is better than FILM LIKE...It's absurd.
I think that K10D's jpeg is very-very good, much better than *ist series and default jpeg is not very soft and really good to print and really FILM LIKE.
If we need to tweak jpeg in K10D, it's not a problem at all...
I think Pentax doesn't pay money to testers...))
12-19-2007, 07:57 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
They did that with the E-510, and tested it for far longer than the K10D. When comparing samples with the optimal E-510 settings they discovered (using the tack sharp 50mm f/2 Macro) to the default K10D settings they quickly did with the soft 50mm f1.4 - the comment was, "we've already made clear that the K10D has a poor jpg engine" - to paraphrase.

People buy cameras based by placing gospel in those reviews.
How DPReview can give a "Highly Recommended" endorsement to the Oly E-510 escapes me.

I tried out a family friend's Oly E-510 after he commented that images from my Pentax seemed better than what his camera could produce. First off, the viewfinder was pathetic and the camera's dynamic range was definitely less than my K100D, with noticeable highlight clipping. Perhaps we get strong high contrast sunny days here in equatorial Singapore but I know I certainly won't recommend this camera to anyone. Obviously Oly die-hards are in complete denial on this.

12-19-2007, 03:58 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
All testers (not only DPREVIEW) paid attention at D200's default jpeg - and called it SOFT, PLEASANT SOFT or even FILM LIKE (as K10D),
but never BAD or POOR,
but I don't understand why nobody never tweaks K10D jpeg in test if they think that digital like jpeg is better than FILM LIKE...It's absurd.
I think that K10D's jpeg is very-very good, much better than *ist series and default jpeg is not very soft and really good to print and really FILM LIKE.
If we need to tweak jpeg in K10D, it's not a problem at all...
I think Pentax doesn't pay money to testers...))
10/10 on that comment.
12-19-2007, 04:45 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
How DPReview can give a "Highly Recommended" endorsement to the Oly E-510 escapes me.

I tried out a family friend's Oly E-510 after he commented that images from my Pentax seemed better than what his camera could produce. First off, the viewfinder was pathetic and the camera's dynamic range was definitely less than my K100D, with noticeable highlight clipping. Perhaps we get strong high contrast sunny days here in equatorial Singapore but I know I certainly won't recommend this camera to anyone. Obviously Oly die-hards are in complete denial on this.
I think we had this discussion before. Anyway, both the K10D and the E-510 have JPG engine issues. Sharpness issues with the K10D, curves issues on the other. There are quite a number of samples on the internet showing comparable DR from the E-510 and other similar cameras, but then those images were culled from RAW and not JPG.

No argument about the viewfinder, though I won't say it's pathetic, just cramped (compared to the K10D). Comparing it to the K100D's viewfinder, though, it's not that much worse, perhaps the 4/3 formatting makes it look much worse than a standard 3:2 viewfinder.
12-19-2007, 05:25 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I think we had this discussion before. Anyway, both the K10D and the E-510 have JPG engine issues. Sharpness issues with the K10D, curves issues on the other. There are quite a number of samples on the internet showing comparable DR from the E-510 and other similar cameras, but then those images were culled from RAW and not JPG.

No argument about the viewfinder, though I won't say it's pathetic, just cramped (compared to the K10D). Comparing it to the K100D's viewfinder, though, it's not that much worse, perhaps the 4/3 formatting makes it look much worse than a standard 3:2 viewfinder.
The difference is that one can still tweak jpegs from the K10D very easily. With the narrower DR of the E-510, blown highlights is more an issue as you lose detail. HDR might be a workaround though.
12-20-2007, 01:04 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
No argument about the viewfinder, though I won't say it's pathetic, just cramped (compared to the K10D). Comparing it to the K100D's viewfinder, though, it's not that much worse, perhaps the 4/3 formatting makes it look much worse than a standard 3:2 viewfinder.
Well, K10D's viewfinder is a staggering 37% larger than that of E-510; if you look at them side by side, the E-510 would look pretty bad.

Even K100D's viewfinder is 24% larger than E-510 - yes, it is that much worse. No comparison really.
12-20-2007, 10:09 AM   #73
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Roland Mabo wrote
The new model from Pentax is a 14Mp CMOS APS-C with more ISO range than the Nikon, and it has a *very* competetive high speed solution. When I first saw the fps of the new camera from Pentax, I thought it was a misprint. It will not have a "crop mode" for the ultra speed mode, it will still be APS-C - but there will be several solutions for speed and resolution.

Rumours of K20D [Page 4]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

As I understand that there is paper specifications already...
I'd like to have a look...)))
12-20-2007, 10:59 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
When I first saw the fps of the new camera from Pentax, I thought it was a misprint. It will not have a "crop mode" for the ultra speed mode, it will still be APS-C - but there will be several solutions for speed and resolution.
Hmmm...on that list of products from Pentax Imaging in another thread, there were products having to do with video. Could that be Pentax's fps solution? Shoot full-res video and essentially get a 30 fps speed?
12-20-2007, 12:09 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Hmmm...on that list of products from Pentax Imaging in another thread, there were products having to do with video. Could that be Pentax's fps solution? Shoot full-res video and essentially get a 30 fps speed?
I was pondering this solution some time ago and wondered how many years away such a development lies. It's only a matter of time until the line between still photography and video is blurred and ultimately erased. Envision a camera that cranks out 20-30 fps at between 10-20 megapixel resolution. You almost wouldn't even need auto focus, as you could manually get close enough and then focus through an area at that frame rate- you could easily get 3-5 keeper shots out of 30 and dump the rest (imagine using a 31mm limited in MF mode or any A* lens- think of the colors!). Cumbersome, perhaps, but you just wouldn't miss the shot. After all, isn't that what matters, getting the shot? How many times have you seen something remarkable that only lasted a second or two? These fleeting moments could finally become captured with relative ease. If Pentax has moved us significantly in that direction this soon, then we can almost consider ourselves touched by angels . I would just about pay whatever they asked for such a privalege.

John
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