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12-21-2007, 11:01 AM   #91
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You know...

QuoteOriginally posted by button Quote
Or, how about being able to chose the megapixel count and related ISO performance? Assuming a 14 megapixel sensor, I could see something like this:

Let's say I choose 7 megapixels, which might give me an ISO ceiling of 12,800-25,600, for moving subjects in low light. Later in the day, I switch to 14 megapixles, giving me an ISO ceiling of 3200. Maybe the camera could offer multiple combinations. Maybe the user could configure it on the fly without having to take his/her eye from the viewfinder! I would certainly prefer a super clean 7 megapixels to a noisy 14 in dim light, for a moving subject (ironically, the lower megapixel image in this scenario would look better in large print). I suspect that we'll see some really unexpected innovation like this in late January.

John
all this talk about ISO 25,600 and the like... I'm still wishing they'd bring back ISO 25! I still miss Velvia; I like shooting slow stuff. This iso 200 minimum sucks, and the BIGGEST drawback in digital cameras remains that of dynamic range being nowhere near slide film, and miles away from that of print film, just like it has since the early days of digital; the improvements have been slow and incremental in this regard. Personally, I'm sick of my landscapes having blown-out white skies, with CA all over the trees and the leaves, of whites being blown out with the slightest provocation, and having to composite multiple exposures to get one decent one because the cameras can't handle the dynamic range of even a mild scene in nature, let alone a dramatic one.

I wish they'd spend more R&D money on those problems, rather than 60 fps cameras with noise-free iso 50,000 and 200 megapixels, but with lousy dynamic range.



IMHO.

Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate, everyone.

Cameron


Last edited by Cambo; 12-21-2007 at 11:01 AM. Reason: spelling
12-21-2007, 03:10 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
all this talk about ISO 25,600 and the like... I'm still wishing they'd bring back ISO 25! I still miss Velvia; I like shooting slow stuff. This iso 200 minimum sucks, and the BIGGEST drawback in digital cameras remains that of dynamic range being nowhere near slide film, and miles away from that of print film, just like it has since the early days of digital; the improvements have been slow and incremental in this regard. Personally, I'm sick of my landscapes having blown-out white skies, with CA all over the trees and the leaves, of whites being blown out with the slightest provocation, and having to composite multiple exposures to get one decent one because the cameras can't handle the dynamic range of even a mild scene in nature, let alone a dramatic one.

I wish they'd spend more R&D money on those problems, rather than 60 fps cameras with noise-free iso 50,000 and 200 megapixels, but with lousy dynamic range.



IMHO.

Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate, everyone.

Cameron
Amen, Cameron. I think the D300 has much of what you (and I as well) want- "active D-lighting" I believe is what they call it for DR compression, plus CA correction (which I also hate), so I don't think that it's too much of a stretch to hope that similar features will appear in the K next D. I didn't really get into photography until last year, at the birth of my daughter, and digital is all I've ever really shot. Just out of curiosity, how does CA on film compare to digital, all else being equal?

John
12-21-2007, 08:43 PM   #93
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There was no CA on film...

QuoteOriginally posted by button Quote
Amen, Cameron. I think the D300 has much of what you (and I as well) want- "active D-lighting" I believe is what they call it for DR compression, plus CA correction (which I also hate), so I don't think that it's too much of a stretch to hope that similar features will appear in the K next D. I didn't really get into photography until last year, at the birth of my daughter, and digital is all I've ever really shot. Just out of curiosity, how does CA on film compare to digital, all else being equal?

John
that's a digital only phenomenon because of the angle of the tiny lenses on the sensor being arranged (apparently) in a perpendicular fashion. It can be corrected in photoshop, but who wants to; the lenses I have are (were) superb on film (FA*), they should be that way in the digital format as far as I'm concerned. It's the digital format that has sucked so far, at certain things, and performed wonderfully in others. I like the smooth, noise free images capable at 'lower' iso's - like 200. Back in the film days, 200 was considered 'High-Speed' film. And I like the slow stuff - I even used to 'pull' Velvia down to iso 40 for a little more saturation and exposure latitude.

It's too bad the industry got caught up in the megapixel wars instead of dynamic range wars. Now we've got 15-20 meg cameras whose dynamic range still sucks compared to film, even 'bad' film.

Hope the next generation of cameras starts to address the areas tha actually need addressing; "iso 12,800 should be enough for anybody" to cynically paraphrase that nitwit who dreamed up the 'Vista' and many other computer disasters.

:ugh:

Cheers,
Cameron
12-21-2007, 10:16 PM   #94
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Ah, it would be great if somebody came up with a sensor with the DR of good negative film.

12-21-2007, 10:16 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
that's a digital only phenomenon because of the angle of the tiny lenses on the sensor being arranged (apparently) in a perpendicular fashion. It can be corrected in photoshop, but who wants to; the lenses I have are (were) superb on film (FA*), they should be that way in the digital format as far as I'm concerned.
That's really good to know. I love my A* 85mm 1.4, but I get some of the worst CA I've ever seen in high contrast areas. If the D300 (and I'm sure the D3) fix it now, we can't be too far away from a similar solution. Maybe even in January...

John
12-22-2007, 12:05 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by JMS Quote
That is absolutely incorrect. Binning is simply software interpolation of the image to make it smaller. Noise will have less resolution, but it will have the same proportional area.
The only method I know of for that type of combination is in the Foveon X3 sensor.
Sorry, actually Ray was correct, and you are absolutely incorrect.

Binning can improve the Signal/Noise ratio, reference here:
Glossary: Binning

Binning is what makes Panasonic TZ1 perform so well in low light video despite its fairly high digital still noise; and in fact, it works better in low light than many dedicated video camcorder.
12-22-2007, 04:45 AM   #97
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My heart is with Pentax. I dont why. Well.. why is my heart with RENAULT. They will never be perfect but I will trust my heart and go with the k20d.
12-22-2007, 08:39 AM   #98
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Can we all wait SAFOX IX? I think that it's absurd to stay with SAFOX VIII in new cameras.

12-23-2007, 04:54 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by schufosi777 Quote
Well.. why is my heart with RENAULT. .
I'm asking myself the same question , but I guess - it is about this "it just feels right"-factor, just like Pentax. *<
(Now I'm must be de-icing my Mégane - I call her "Amelie" - (I named my previous Laguna "Georges" but that was too hard to say so it was time for a simpler name when I switched car), and get to the shopping mall to buy the last gifts...)
*<)

Oh, and my K10D is "Fred" by the way. Haha...
12-23-2007, 08:19 AM   #100
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The New Pentax Cameras

This is my thinking on this topic. I believe when the dust settles after PMA there will be three Pentax SLRs. The K100D super will remain in it's position as the premier entry level camera for folks moving up from their point and shoots.

The second camera will be the replacement of the K10D which will be a 14 megapixel camera but minus a few features that are reserved for the third camera which will be higher end.

My reason for keeping the K100D super is that it was released late in the year just in time for Xmas. Don't see Pentax giving up the sweet spot that it currently holds at this price range until the competition moves beyond it.
12-23-2007, 09:27 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by HawaiianOnline Quote
Ah, it would be great if somebody came up with a sensor with the DR of good negative film.
this may well be possible soon. Suppose you have a 20mp sensor which is able to split
itself in 3 layers if you will, and take 3 images at the same time at 6 mp (at different ISO's.

The ultimate bracket exposure. Now a computer, either on or off camera could reconstruct
the image. Not a replacement for simply having pixels that have the full range in the first place, but the ability of photoshop to draw from a darker image would greatly help fix the burned out areas.
12-23-2007, 12:37 PM   #102
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That'd work...

QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
this may well be possible soon. Suppose you have a 20mp sensor which is able to split
itself in 3 layers if you will, and take 3 images at the same time at 6 mp (at different ISO's.

The ultimate bracket exposure. Now a computer, either on or off camera could reconstruct
the image. Not a replacement for simply having pixels that have the full range in the first place, but the ability of photoshop to draw from a darker image would greatly help fix the burned out areas.
onboard compositing - brilliant! Let's hope it's already in the Hoya Christmas camera.

Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate, everyone,
Cameron
12-23-2007, 03:00 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
onboard compositing - brilliant! Let's hope it's already in the Hoya Christmas camera.

Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate, everyone,
Cameron
Well, I guess we will see. A seriously wider dynamic range would be preferred, but the ability
to grab several photos at the same moment would give some meaning to bracketing.
12-23-2007, 05:48 PM   #104
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Actually, I would trade negative film dynamic range for negative film latitude. Blown highlights are starting to piss me off. Pretty much any landscape with white clouds in it results in blown clouds for me. Neutral grads are great, but if there happens to be a tall tree, mountain, or some other vertical element in the landscape...
12-23-2007, 11:00 PM   #105
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Release will be on January, 11-15

Last edited by ogl; 12-23-2007 at 11:06 PM.
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