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12-21-2007, 11:05 AM   #1
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A collection of K20D rumors

Here we are 34 days from the announcement of the K20D and no spec sheet has been leaked, amazing. After trying to read all the different threads here and other places I've come up with two lists. 1) rumors I believe. 2) Rumors I'd like to believe.

Rumors I believe:

Sensor: 14+ MP manufactured by Samsung? Sanyo? Panosonic?
ISO noise: As good as the K100D but also goes to ISO 6400
FPS: 3 fps but also has a high speed mode of 5fps in either 12 bit file or jpeg files.
Lens calibration: Can calibrate up to 20 lenses for AF. Hope this works on older lenses.
LV: same screen as on the A700 and D300
Size: The same as the K10D
JPEG files: Much greater range in adjustment for personal preference.
AF: faster than K10D. On par with the 40D for speed and maybe even tracking.
New color profile for RAW: Hope it's pro RGB.
SR: Improved by 2 stops over K10D.

Rumors I'd like to believe

ISO noise: On a par with D300
LV: Available in VF for fine tuning focus.
GPS: Connectivity like the D300 or better, maybe wireless.
Flip out LCD: This has been mentioned as a feature the Samsung will have.

MSRP: $1,200 to $1,400

Since I haven't started to shoot with flash yet I haven't followed any of those rumors. What other believable rumors have you read about that I have missed?

Regards,

Ken


Last edited by regken; 12-21-2007 at 01:30 PM.
12-21-2007, 12:32 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Here we are 34 days from the announcement of the K20D and no spec sheet has been leaked, amazing. After trying to read all the different threads here and other places I've come up with two lists. 1) rumors I believe. 2) Rumors I'd like to believe.

Rumors I believe:

Sensor: 14+ MP manufactured by Samsung? Sanyo? Panosonic?
ISO noise: As good as the K100D but also goes to ISO 6400
FPS: 3 fps but also has a high speed mode of 5fps in either 12 bit file or jpeg files.
Lens calibration: Can calibrate up to 20 lenses for AF. Hope this works on older lenses.
LV: same screen as on the A700 and D300
Size: The same as the K10D
JPEG files: Much greater range in adjustment for personal preference.
AF: faster than K10D. On par with the 40D for speed and maybe even tracking.
New color profile for RAW: Hope it's pro RGB.
SR: Improved by 2 stops over K10D.

Rumors I'd like to believe

ISO noise: On a par with D300
LV: Available in VF for fine tuning focus.
GPS: Connectivity like the D300 or better, maybe wireless.
Flip out LCD: This has been mentioned as a feature the Samsung will have.

Since I haven't started to shoot with flash yet I haven't followed any of those rumors. What other believable rumors have you read about that I have missed?

Regards,

Ken
Most of the information is, as you say, rumours, much of which is also incorrect and mis-information, but I have one solid one for you.

I've heard that it will be announced around Jan 24th together with a cheaper body!
12-21-2007, 01:11 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Most of the information is, as you say, rumours, much of which is also incorrect and mis-information, but I have one solid one for you.

I've heard that it will be announced around Jan 24th together with a cheaper body!
Very funny Richard! Since you are one of the few that are in the know you can sit back and enjoy all of our foolish guesses. So my budget for a new body is $1,200. Got any ideas as to when I might be enjoying a new camera?
12-21-2007, 01:51 PM   #4
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I think that much people are dreaming... dreaming of a dream Pentax-cam. So, when we hear nice specs that we are thinking that it will be true. Shouting people with nice ideas of the new cams are believed as bringers of new great specs.
Now even magazines are publising all that rumours.. so then we think more that that rumours are be true..

If all our dreams come true.... then we have an really great new camera!

12-21-2007, 02:54 PM   #5
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???

QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Very funny Richard! Since you are one of the few that are in the know you can sit back and enjoy all of our foolish guesses. So my budget for a new body is $1,200. Got any ideas as to when I might be enjoying a new camera?
I don't think Richard wants to answer that question...I'm sure he also signed an NDA as I did..Right Richard? I think Richard has been more than generous in his info...I would have received a summons by this time had I been as charitable as he has.

Ben

Last edited by benjikan; 12-22-2007 at 04:44 AM.
12-21-2007, 03:08 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I don't think Richard wants to answer that quetion...I'm sure he also signed an NDA as I did..Right Richard? I think Richard has been more than generous in his info...I would have received a summon by this time had I have been as charitable as he has.

Ben
Agreed Ben. There are about 5 of you that have been great in telling us what you could and we appreciate that. At the same time you can't fault us for trying to fish for more can you? This whole speculation thing has been fun and we are all more than ready to see what is really going to be put in front of us.
12-21-2007, 09:37 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Agreed Ben. There are about 5 of you that have been great in telling us what you could and we appreciate that. At the same time you can't fault us for trying to fish for more can you? This whole speculation thing has been fun and we are all more than ready to see what is really going to be put in front of us.
We shall all be excited my friend.

I know more than many, but not as much as the few under NDA and those guys are having a blast right now. Basically bursting at the seams with smiles ear to ear. Those guys are excited and when they are excited it means a lot about the product and how well the development is going.

If I hated the beta model I'd make a stink about it, even to the point of not being there to stop the harsh rumors and let them fly. I'm one of those harsh critics when it comes to my own work as well as the tool behind it.

You should hear me ramble about the crap of this camera and the crap of that camera and how crappy that pic is and so on and so forth and try and figure out how to get a great pic out that camera. You should see me with an A100 in my hand, my teeth show and I want to kill someone cause I hate so much of it and I let it be known. Put other cameras in my hand and watch my expressions change.

You've got a nice list of rumors on there and some are spot on and some are wrong but not entirely, you just haven't seen the picture yet is all.
12-21-2007, 10:25 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Rumors I believe:


Lens calibration: Can calibrate up to 20 lenses for AF. Hope this works on older lenses.

Rumors I'd like to believe

I

Ken
It would seem that the minimum would be that the software would have to know what lens was attached. The electrical contact to provide that communications did not occur
until the F series lenses. Of course it would be illogical to calibrate manual focus lenses anyway...... However the calibration seems to be mostly just an issue for the SDM lenses
so support might be limited to them.

I haven't read of Pentax exactly documenting what information passes from the lens to the camera body

We do know that since F lenses the camera body has been able to dynamically identify the
the focal length of a zoom lens, and we know that other lens parameters pass, but it is unclear to me if the data pass includes an ID code that allows the camera body to specifically identify the lens connected or not on the F and FA series lenses.

One must surmise that the camera body does have a way to specifically identify the SDM
lenses because the focus motor in the camera body doesn't operate, and the
lens based focus motor operates instead on a SDM aware body.

12-21-2007, 10:42 PM   #9
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I should think that the camera knows the exact lens that is attached. I deduce this from the ability of the Pentax only program mode of MTF. Unless the camera identifies the specific lens that is attached, it would not have the MTF data.
12-22-2007, 12:11 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
It would seem that the minimum would be that the software would have to know what lens was attached.
Of course, it can. If my raw converter (from PEF RAW) and ExifTools (from JPEG Exif) has no trouble knowing which lens I am using, you can be reassured that the info is right there.
12-22-2007, 01:09 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
I should think that the camera knows the exact lens that is attached. I deduce this from the ability of the Pentax only program mode of MTF. Unless the camera identifies the specific lens that is attached, it would not have the MTF data.
I have not observed correct metadata using pre AF lenses. Bojidar Dimitrov's page describes a list of parameters that pass, but his list does not include the specific lens model, but rather
parameters. With today's programmable cameras, it would be much easier to give every lens an ID number which passed, and let the camera key that number in a look up table for what ever parameters it needed, but considering when the protocol between the lens and camera was designed, and the fact that then the cameras were not programmable, it would have made more sense to pass a parameter list, then new lenses could be automatically integrated and supported.

We may not have considered that it is possible that the protocol for lens/camera communications established decades ago does not fully meet todays needs nd a departure from backwards compatibility may be needed to cure this problem.
12-22-2007, 04:03 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Very funny Richard! Since you are one of the few that are in the know you can sit back and enjoy all of our foolish guesses. So my budget for a new body is $1,200. Got any ideas as to when I might be enjoying a new camera?
QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I don't think Richard wants to answer that quetion...I'm sure he also signed an NDA as I did..Right Richard? I think Richard has been more than generous in his info...I would have received a summon by this time had I been as charitable as he has.

Ben
I see nuffink, I say nuffink, I know nuffink.

My response to Ben about the monolith that will change the future course of mankind revealed too much.
So I've now been silenced by the Sentinels who watch over the universe! They've instructed us not to land on Europa. - (Ref: Arthur C Clarke, 2010: Odyssey Two, Ch 53)

You'll have to wait until Jan 24th or whenever Pentax decide, could actually be 2010 for the camera that some have speculated on, or have wet dreams about!
12-22-2007, 12:16 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
I see nuffink, I say nuffink, I know nuffink.

My response to Ben about the monolith that will change the future course of mankind revealed too much.
So I've now been silenced by the Sentinels who watch over the universe! They've instructed us not to land on Europa. - (Ref: Arthur C Clarke, 2010: Odyssey Two, Ch 53)

You'll have to wait until Jan 24th or whenever Pentax decide, could actually be 2010 for the camera that some have speculated on, or have wet dreams about!
don't choke on the sock stuffed down your thoat....
12-22-2007, 12:35 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
I have not observed correct metadata using pre AF lenses. Bojidar Dimitrov's page describes a list of parameters that pass, but his list does not include the specific lens model, but rather
parameters. With today's programmable cameras, it would be much easier to give every lens an ID number which passed, and let the camera key that number in a look up table for what ever parameters it needed, but considering when the protocol between the lens and camera was designed, and the fact that then the cameras were not programmable, it would have made more sense to pass a parameter list, then new lenses could be automatically integrated and supported.

We may not have considered that it is possible that the protocol for lens/camera communications established decades ago does not fully meet todays needs nd a departure from backwards compatibility may be needed to cure this problem.

Correct, pre-AF lenses did not have the contacts on them to communicate anything with the camera body. New ones do, they tell the camera what lens you're using for sure. Beyond that, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility for a body to logically make an educated guess what lens is attached, just by observing the physical makeup of the lens as it can, such as max aperture, and focal length. Point is, a short while back, if you told people that cameras would be able to focus themself by observing through the lens, you'd probably get some funny looks. Then along comes nikon with a 'robotic lens' gismo. Given as stated above, and the camera had a database of physical lens attributes to 'guess' the lens it's using, I think it's feasible. Not saying it will happen, but it sure would be nice, it could automatically adjust exposure for certain lenses.
12-22-2007, 04:25 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dr_Watso Quote
Correct, pre-AF lenses did not have the contacts on them to communicate anything with the camera body. New ones do, they tell the camera what lens you're using for sure. Beyond that, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility for a body to logically make an educated guess what lens is attached, just by observing the physical makeup of the lens as it can, such as max aperture, and focal length. Point is, a short while back, if you told people that cameras would be able to focus themself by observing through the lens, you'd probably get some funny looks. Then along comes nikon with a 'robotic lens' gismo. Given as stated above, and the camera had a database of physical lens attributes to 'guess' the lens it's using, I think it's feasible. Not saying it will happen, but it sure would be nice, it could automatically adjust exposure for certain lenses.
Agreed, It's pretty clear that the FA and later lenses have a pretty close interaction. Particulary when they became KAF2 mounted, the "two" was to drive power zoom and there had to be enough information floating back and forth to recognize and control power zoom lenses.

Few have observed that logically the KAF2 lens mount has changed in the context of
the SDM lenses. Physically, the mount is identical to the 'old' KAF2 mount, but electronicly the mount has changed because now the same physical mount manages to make a motor
in the lens adjust the focus, instead of adjust the zoom.

the fact that they were able to hijack the 'power contacts' -- the 2 -- for other purposes, suggests to me that the "2" contact are just as thought--- a power supply and instructions
as to what to do with that power after it gets to the lens are passed through the data contact on the lens mount, which at least now is pretty clearly a bi-directional data path as the SDM's couldn't work without bidirectional data flow.
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