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12-17-2011, 09:51 PM - 3 Likes   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
I thought that they are thinking of doing either or both of them. I did not sense that FF is done deal. Here is the quote that said that:

"そこに、さらに35mm判フルサイズや、645サイズのレンズ交換式のミラーレスカメラもやろうとしているというんだから、その、いけいけどんどん、ぶりには驚く。"

In this sentence I do not see where they say they are doing FF version and 645 is in early stages.
I am a Japanese and as I read this article, it is no where saying Pentax is doing mirror less FF and 645 is in early stage. This guy who wrote this article is just trying to sell the magazine with more detailed interview of Mr. Kitamura. All I could read from the article is Mr. Kitamura said in his interview that he is trying to start developing mirror less FF right now and his vision is even to expand to mirror less 645.

12-17-2011, 09:58 PM   #137
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If they go mirrorless they should make sure the video part is top notch, just look how many indie movie makers love the 5D mark II

Actually ditching the K mout might not be that bad, they would simply open the market more if there are adapter avaible for Nikon and Sony lenses as well.
So switching doesn't mean you need to ditch your lenses, making the step much easier to make.

btw moving to a shorter register doesn't mean they need to ditch the mirror.
You know the translucuant mirror Sony use right, keep the concept the same but use electrochromic mirrors insteads, also ditch the mechenical shutteer for lcd ones and you basicly have a true DSLR witout moving parts, there is still some light lost though but not nearly as much as the sony system.

Proof of concept.
It's from 2007, don't know if they can make the transition faster.

Last edited by Anvh; 12-17-2011 at 10:05 PM.
12-17-2011, 10:01 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by knishita Quote
I am a Japanese and as I read this article, it is no where saying Pentax is doing mirror less FF and 645 is in early stage. This guy who wrote this article is just trying to sell the magazine with more detailed interview of Mr. Kitamura. All I could read from the article is Mr. Kitamura said in his interview that he is trying to start developing mirror less FF right now and his vision is even to expand to mirror less 645.
Finally!! after all these pages of comments there is a native Japanese speaker let us know what the article said.

But I think the discussion will continue no matter what... LOL
12-17-2011, 10:03 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by knishita Quote
I am a Japanese and as I read this article, it is no where saying Pentax is doing mirror less FF and 645 is in early stage. This guy who wrote this article is just trying to sell the magazine with more detailed interview of Mr. Kitamura. All I could read from the article is Mr. Kitamura said in his interview that he is trying to start developing mirror less FF right now and his vision is even to expand to mirror less 645.
Interesting, at least he mentions trying to start on a FF, with Hoya FF seemed to be off the table.

12-17-2011, 10:39 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
If they go mirrorless they should make sure the video part is top notch, just look how many indie movie makers love the 5D mark II

Actually ditching the K mout might not be that bad, they would simply open the market more if there are adapter avaible for Nikon and Sony lenses as well.
So switching doesn't mean you need to ditch your lenses, making the step much easier to make.

btw moving to a shorter register doesn't mean they need to ditch the mirror.
You know the translucuant mirror Sony use right, keep the concept the same but use electrochromic mirrors insteads, also ditch the mechenical shutteer for lcd ones and you basicly have a true DSLR witout moving parts, there is still some light lost though but not nearly as much as the sony system.

Proof of concept.
It's from 2007, don't know if they can make the transition faster.
302 Found
Thanks for the interesting tidbit on electrochromatics. Just looked it up, if the transition could be sped up it might be viable.
12-17-2011, 11:09 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
That still doesn't explain why mirrorless automatically means K-mount is dead and buried.
Nobody said K-mount was dead. K-mount will live on regardless of the mirror-less system. Just like the A-mount and E-mount for Sony.
12-17-2011, 11:10 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
Finally!! after all these pages of comments there is a native Japanese speaker let us know what the article said.

But I think the discussion will continue no matter what... LOL
In the real world, it's going to take Ricoh and Pentax months to develop a cohesive brand and product strategy and then many more months after that before products start hitting shelves and shopping carts. Ricoh and Pentax management have probably just completed the first round of group meetings, with plenty of powerpoints and plenty of discussions on where everyone sees the market going and where Ricoh wants Pentax to play a part.

All told, it will be at least a year and likely longer until we see the first real Ricoh Pentax products. Until then, it's probably a matter of looking at what was already in the pipeline before the acquisition, and proceeding as planned, with perhaps minor changes to the supply chain etc..
12-17-2011, 11:49 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by knishita Quote
I am a Japanese and as I read this article, it is no where saying Pentax is doing mirror less FF and 645 is in early stage. This guy who wrote this article is just trying to sell the magazine with more detailed interview of Mr. Kitamura. All I could read from the article is Mr. Kitamura said in his interview that he is trying to start developing mirror less FF right now and his vision is even to expand to mirror less 645.
Yaa thats what I got the impression because he used : shiyou to omou, which translations to something like thinking of doing something.

12-18-2011, 01:26 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
In the real world, it's going to take Ricoh and Pentax months to develop a cohesive brand and product strategy and then many more months after that before products start hitting shelves and shopping carts. Ricoh and Pentax management have probably just completed the first round of group meetings, with plenty of powerpoints and plenty of discussions on where everyone sees the market going and where Ricoh wants Pentax to play a part.

All told, it will be at least a year and likely longer until we see the first real Ricoh Pentax products. Until then, it's probably a matter of looking at what was already in the pipeline before the acquisition, and proceeding as planned, with perhaps minor changes to the supply chain etc..
Agreed with the production development time analysis here, at this stage I'd see this article as an indication of 'long term' vision rather than imminent product launch as development of the replacement model for K-r and K-5 would have started way, way before the Ricoh takeover and Hoya never committed to development of FF. We might see the replacement model of K-r and K-5 early 2012, then maybe a reshuffle of the DSLR model line towards the end of the year or early 2013.

Anyway, my 2cent....
12-18-2011, 01:27 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
this is one of the things that I really don't understand. In concept I get the registration distance, and how it impacts ability to focus close, however I have an old Pentax K mount film body that is easily half the depth of my K-5, and it is already full frame. Suggesting shaving off that little protruding bit is interesting, but seemingly irrelevant to me. It seems there's plenty of size/space to be made up from elsewhere.

Use the mirror-box space to some other advantages, say cooling the sensor. You're going to need that space either in the front or the rear, the specs already have it in the front. I say use it there. It's useful and doesn't require a new lens line.

Or come up with a fully compliant, weather sealed adapter. Whatever, it'll just be glued to whatever you sell me.
12-18-2011, 01:35 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
this is one of the things that I really don't understand. In concept I get the registration distance, and how it impacts ability to focus close, however I have an old Pentax K mount film body that is easily half the depth of my K-5, and it is already full frame. Suggesting shaving off that little protruding bit is interesting, but seemingly irrelevant to me. It seems there's plenty of size/space to be made up from elsewhere.

Use the mirror-box space to some other advantages, say cooling the sensor. You're going to need that space either in the front or the rear, the specs already have it in the front. I say use it there. It's useful and doesn't require a new lens line.

Or come up with a fully compliant, weather sealed adapter. Whatever, it'll just be glued to whatever you sell me.
These photos show where the bloat comes from







Regarding keeping the sensor cool - I've shot around 2 hours of continuous video with the Panasonic GH2. It did not overheat. Panasonic knows how to keep sensors cool without a mirror box!
12-18-2011, 02:38 AM - 1 Like   #147
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I didnt read through this thread but.... why must a mirrorless FF camera have a new mount???? Why not K-mount??? Just because ML can be made smaller doesnt mean it must be...

Pentax: Make us a APS-C ML with new mount and FF ML with K-mount...

Think im one of those really picky ones who dont want to use adaptors.... My FA's belong on a K-mount...
12-18-2011, 02:49 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
What arguments should I put here? Well, the first is shooting with my A50/f1.2 and K-5 was like a lottery. In 99.9% cases focus was missed. Most of my good shots with this lens were taken via LV. I have at least 30-40% hit ratio in not so good lightning with the NEX. Of course, the OVF is more pleasant to use, but not crappy ones with APS-C cameras. They are inferior.
Those are not arguments, just your opinion. Probably influenced by the fact it's your choice of system.

A digital view, LCD backpanel or EVF, can NEVER have the same resolution as the real image. It's impossible. And that's what disappoints most people when they look at such a tiny computer screen.

The fact that you can't focus correctly is YOUR problem. I virtually never miss shots. Only when I have fast moving subjects. Even at night, like at concerts, I have very good hit ratio. Even with my Vivitar 800mm F8. Do you realize how dark that makes the OVF? Still no problems with focussing though.

If your K5 is faulty, get it fixed. If your eyes are faulty, get those looked at.

The NEX5 was for me a flimsy little device. Impossible to handle, because of it's tiny size. Tiny buttons that are impossible to find. It should be in a ladies purse.
12-18-2011, 02:50 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
I didnt read through this thread but.... why must a mirrorless FF camera have a new mount???? Why not K-mount??? Just because ML can be made smaller doesnt mean it must be...

Pentax: Make us a APS-C ML with new mount and FF ML with K-mount...

Think im one of those really picky ones who dont want to use adaptors.... My FA's belong on a K-mount...
You're not picky. You're just right. If I wanted to use my lenses with a adapter, I can just as well move system. No need to wait on Pentax. I just can't comprehend why they want to throw in their own windows like that.

Last edited by Clavius; 12-18-2011 at 03:02 AM.
12-18-2011, 03:02 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffshaddix Quote
Thanks for the interesting tidbit on electrochromatics. Just looked it up, if the transition could be sped up it might be viable.
It would probably be the future of DSLR, far easier to make than the mechanical mirror.
They can also adjust the reflectiveness so they can make it work like the Sony now if you want or as a build in variable ND filter
The video is already 4 years old so they might have something faster already.

I'm expecting LCD shutters really soon in cameras, it's the same kind of shutters they use in active 3D glasses so that technology has had a boom this past few years.
They can reach 1000hz so far as i know, that would be good for 1/1000 shutterspeed, doesn't sound much but is probably enough for most and... this your flash sync speed, no more rolling shutter and less camera movement.
This would be a real plus for the 645D which use larger shutters, with LCD shutter and mirror up the camera won't make any movement at all.

LCD Shutters from Liquid Crystal Technologies
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