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12-19-2011, 02:22 PM   #256
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The CP+ Camera and Photo Imaging Show is also coming up soon in Japan (in February 2012). Something might show up or leak out from there.

12-19-2011, 02:41 PM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Why do you say that? The Sony E mount 18-55 is almost exactly the same size as the Pentax 18-55 for the K mount.
It's a Sony
12-19-2011, 02:47 PM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
optics that covers 24-70 range would be much smaller on mirrorless
Depends on the imagesize.
So all the 28-70 lenses design for ASP-C can be all just as larger no matter what register distance they use.

Samsung NX 18-55 mm isn't small either.
12-19-2011, 03:30 PM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I'd appreciate if you'd not comment on things we're unable to read.
Well, sorry, sir. But I sense tension . . .

12-19-2011, 03:30 PM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
Ned Bunnell is quite open about his admiration for Leica, and I can't help but wonder if Pentax's longer-term vision to be the "Leica for the rest of us".
No offence, but I don't think it matters much what Ned Bunnell thinks. Because the camera development seems to happen in Japan and I believe Pentax USA (or whatever it is called today, Ricoh USA???) is just the distributor in one big market. Of course they know much more that we do and the Japanese HQ probably listens to their views on things, but unlikely much more.
12-19-2011, 04:26 PM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
There's no perfect camera for everyone I suppose. However, since I personally don't care much about zooms I'm all for an ME Super sized mirrorless 35mm camera. As far as high end photographers using large lenses goes..I counter that with Leica. The cheapest lens they make is $1700, and every single lens they make is smaller than a FA31mm limited. They sale so many there is currently a 3-4 month wait because they can't meet demand. So I'd say there are a fair number of high end photographers that appreciate small primes. However, until recently we haven't had many options in the digital world. In fact, the NEX-7 is probably the first true DSLR replacement for a lot of us, and it is just now starting to ship.

As far as using large telephotos, f/2.8 zooms, etc. The one thing I don't understand is it seems no one thinks a large mirrorless camera will ever be made. Further, Pentax could design a modular body (seems righ up Ricoh's alley) about the size of a NEX-7, but design it so a vertical grip could be added to give it more heft when needed. You can always make a camera larger, but it seems Pentax has made a digital K-Mount camera about as small as they can; and they are still too large for some of us.
I'm with you on this one Art. I had to drive into Austin today and started thinking about the NEX 7 again. Steve Huff's original review kind of killed my interest in it at first. But after reading another review my interest is piqued again. My big knock against Sony is the lack of lenses. I just don't use zooms so by my count they have 3 lenses. The only one that interests me is the 24mm F1.8 which is of course is actually a 36mm F1.8 or something like that. However the Kmount adapter for it is rather small. That would give me an approx. 50mm with the Pentax 31. Then all I would need is something in the 85mm range. The focus peaking is supposed to be really good for manual focus.

I'm betting Sony sells a lot of these cameras.
12-19-2011, 05:27 PM   #262
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To the people suggesting the K-5 is too big: You are either pigmies or just using the wrong camera. If the K-5 were any smaller, you'd need tweezers to hold it.

I fully agree that a modular approach would be the best way to go with a new Pentax FF camera and Ricoh would probably push it too based on their current cameras. If they went mirror-less and EVF then it would be smaller and cheaper to produce for starters.

I can see that Pentax could kickstart an entirely renewed FF market due to not having so much invested already in lenses. They could virtually start from scratch with a totally new system design and with a new set of lenses for it. That would then mean a K-Mount adapter would be on the cards.
12-20-2011, 06:30 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
No offence, but I don't think it matters much what Ned Bunnell thinks. Because the camera development seems to happen in Japan and I believe Pentax USA (or whatever it is called today, Ricoh USA???) is just the distributor in one big market. Of course they know much more that we do and the Japanese HQ probably listens to their views on things, but unlikely much more.
Yes of course, I didn't want to give the impression that I thought that Ned runs the entire show. His voice would be a prominent one within the organisation, but by no means a decisive one. Having said that, it doesn't seem like crazy talk to suppose that some of opinions that he publicly voices might give some indication of some of the thinking going on behind the scenes at Pentax.

In addition to Ned's comments about Leica, we've seen other Pentax officials comment to the effect that they wish to move Pentax upmarket to some degree. And I would suggest that Pentax's traditional strengths in primes and compact bodies parallels those of Leica's somewhat. Thus if Pentax does indeed push towards a more upmarket niche, it may not be totally inappropriate to describe it as "Leica for the rest of us".


Last edited by asw66; 12-20-2011 at 06:30 AM. Reason: grammar
12-20-2011, 07:03 AM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I can see that Pentax could kickstart an entirely renewed FF market due to not having so much invested already in lenses. They could virtually start from scratch with a totally new system design and with a new set of lenses for it. That would then mean a K-Mount adapter would be on the cards.
But they do have so much invested in lenses. They have already done the R&D on the FA* and FA Limited lenses, lenses which are so good that the glass is still out-resolving our current sensors. Just because they aren't producing them doesn't mean much. AFAIK, they could start producing them again at any time, to pair up with their FF camera.

Also, all the old Pentax film bodies that I own are about *half* the depth of the K-5. It seems to me that removing the mirrorbox really isn't going to save that much space. I'd much prefer to see a leaf shutter take up that space anyway.
12-20-2011, 07:21 AM   #265
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R&D isn't waisted, they need to adapt the lenses to work with the shorter register.
From what i understand they can also use the more classic lens design for wider focal lengths so the design for 50mm lenses can also probably be used for 30mm lenses and maybe wider meaning that wider lenses become cheaper.

For APS-C it's only a good thing.
If they use an FF sensor however they might as well keep using the k-mount since i doubt there is much to gain.
12-20-2011, 07:21 AM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
But they do have so much invested in lenses. They have already done the R&D on the FA* and FA Limited lenses, lenses which are so good that the glass is still out-resolving our current sensors. Just because they aren't producing them doesn't mean much. AFAIK, they could start producing them again at any time, to pair up with their FF camera.
Sounds good, but in reality they just can't, even if they try hard.

Production of the FA* series was stopped about 10 years ago! The electronics in the FA* lenses is old and outdated. The parts from that era probably cannot be ordered anymore. Subcontractors may have quit production altogether or do not exist anymore. The dies for the parts have probably been destroyed. The glass recipes from that era do not exist anymore. They will not use leaded glass in future products (there is lead containing glass in the FA* series with a different refractive index). It just won't happen. Sorry!

(Though I'd love to be able to buy new FA* glass, like the FA* 200/4 macro).
12-20-2011, 07:28 AM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Sounds good, but in reality they just can't, even if they try hard.

Production of the FA* series was stopped about 10 years ago! The electronics in the FA* lenses is old and outdated. The parts from that era probably cannot be ordered anymore. Subcontractors may have quit production altogether or do not exist anymore. The dies for the parts have probably been destroyed. The glass recipes from that era do not exist anymore. They will not use leaded glass in future products (there is lead containing glass in the FA* series with a different refractive index). It just won't happen. Sorry!

(Though I'd love to be able to buy new FA* glass, like the FA* 200/4 macro).
While this is all true, the basic designs still exist, they would need to rework them as DFA* in any case to bring them to market. They aren't starting from scratch, and I imagine there have been computer models done on many of the designs for update anyway. Lens design isn't the Black art of artists anymore CAD makes much of this less costly up front since much of it can be modeled prior to prototyping even.
12-20-2011, 07:35 AM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
While this is all true, the basic designs still exist, they would need to rework them as DFA* in any case to bring them to market. They aren't starting from scratch, and I imagine there have been computer models done on many of the designs for update anyway. Lens design isn't the Black art of artists anymore CAD makes much of this less costly up front since much of it can be modeled prior to prototyping even.
Of course they won't start from scratch, but referring to the FA* series is not very helpful if the end result is a completely new lens with a different optical scheme, different glass and different coating. Such a new lens will have no relation to the FA* series whatsoever, apart from probably the focal length and zoom range. The rendering and color transmission will be very different. If one wants the FA* series then one should buy them second hand
12-20-2011, 08:02 AM   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
They will not use leaded glass in future products (there is lead containing glass in the FA* series with a different refractive index).
Remind me not to chew on my lenses. Nom nom nom.

Last edited by Clinton; 12-20-2011 at 08:17 AM.
12-20-2011, 08:11 AM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
Remind me not to chew on my lenses.
The lead content is why the current production of older Pentax MF lens designs may not be available in all markets if I'm not mistaken. (thinking of the EU and NA specifically)
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