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12-21-2011, 06:01 PM   #361
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
My records on my hi-end stero has better sound quality than my CD's on the same hig-end system. An ipod just don't have the sound quality for me. An ipod is convienent and that it about all. Now my HD flatcreen is a different story. It has a lot better quality than my old tube TV plus the new technology makes it more convienent.

So new technology just to be new is not an end in itself. Just replacing a optical viewfinder with an EVF just to decrease the register distance a few millimeters just doesn't do it for me. Yes, an EVF will make the camera alittle less expensive to make, but is about all at this time.

Dave
I was referring to portable devices but good luck carrying your stereo system around with you if you must have that extra quality.

12-21-2011, 06:09 PM   #362
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Did anyone ever link to the Translation of the Kitazawa interview? Much ado about nothing.
12-21-2011, 06:33 PM   #363
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
We are already loosing resolution at F13 on our K-5s, and the next gen will drop that to F8.
AFAIC, it doesn't make sense to speak about "losing" resolution.

Taking your argument seriously, the recommendation would have to be to get a 6MP camera so that you can stop down to f/16 without "losing resolution".

Increasing sensor resolution is not detrimental to anything (except perhaps file storage demands).
12-21-2011, 07:12 PM   #364
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Cannot be true. In the film days a entry level SLR hardly costed more than a similarly specced P&S. The cost cannot be great; particularly on a DSLR where the sensor is what really cost money.
I can't verify the truth to the statement. When Sony announced the A850 in an interview they said that the cost to calibrate the 100% OVF on the A900 represented a significant cost over the A850. It all has to be done by hand. Sony has said in interviews that the OVF was a significant cost factor over EVF.

12-21-2011, 07:33 PM   #365
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
You sure?
With Sony evil like the a65 for example you also have front and back focus.
When I mention EVIL I am referring to mirror-less. EVIL was the term used before SLT hit the market and blurred the lines. But you are correct. Any camera that uses PDAF can suffer from FF/BF and will need to be calibrated with each lens.

The E-P3 CDAF is faster than any camera Pentax makes. Tracking moving subjects is still not up to PDAF ability, but CDAF is making progress faster than I would have expected.

Take out the mirror and the mechanical parts and you can speed thing up and quiet them down. Sony A77 is hitting 12FPS. To develop a traditional DSLR that can handle that speed and not have the mirror fly off after a couple thousand frames or sound like an M60 firing off costs a lot of money. The EVF still needs to improve, but for Sony's second generation technology they are doing pretty good. The 2.4 million dot OLED EVF in the NEX-7 is not bad by all accounts.
12-21-2011, 07:55 PM   #366
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
It's funny you mention that because the moving sensor AF solution is the only way (as far as I can see) to incorporate AF on a Leica digital RF.
You can't have AF on a Leica, it's tradition to have MF
The world would come to an end
12-21-2011, 08:27 PM   #367
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
You can't have AF on a Leica, it's tradition to have MF The world would come to an end
yeah, you should have heard what some diehard Leicaphiles thought about the addition of TTL metering on the M5. The M5 was effectively shunned by leicaphiles and the rise of the SLR in the 1960-70's certainly didn't help. However it isn't at all that uncommon for there to be a preference for the M6 TTL or M7 amongst aficionados, after all these years the M5 still retains a negative social stigma amongst leicaphiles.
12-21-2011, 08:38 PM   #368
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
AFAIC, it doesn't make sense to speak about "losing" resolution.

Taking your argument seriously, the recommendation would have to be to get a 6MP camera so that you can stop down to f/16 without "losing resolution".

Increasing sensor resolution is not detrimental to anything (except perhaps file storage demands).
You're quite right on this point it's lose.

Not to get stuck on the details, but you're right and wrong. If you want to stop down to F/16 right now, you really need full frame or you get no additional benefit of your current high resolution sensor. Maybe most don't ever stop down that far. *shrug*

I'm guessing most of us stop down below F8 though. Soon you will get to choose. More resolution and wider open, or less resolution. That's fine for some I suppose. I'd rather have the performance though.

12-21-2011, 09:03 PM   #369
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
I also disagree on the price. I think $3000 is a fine pricemark for the full frame camera, while keeping the less expensive option at APS-C.
Clinton, you are hardly typical of the average Pentax user, with your taste for big fast glass. Pentax needs more Clintons to survive! Unfortunately (for Pentax), the majority are content with a K-x/r and the kit lens (even the kit lens used to be Sigma till recently here).
12-21-2011, 10:17 PM   #370
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The E-P3 CDAF is faster than any camera Pentax makes. Tracking moving subjects is still not up to PDAF ability, but CDAF is making progress faster than I would have expected.

Take out the mirror and the mechanical parts and you can speed thing up and quiet them down. Sony A77 is hitting 12FPS. To develop a traditional DSLR that can handle that speed and not have the mirror fly off after a couple thousand frames or sound like an M60 firing off costs a lot of money. The EVF still needs to improve, but for Sony's second generation technology they are doing pretty good. The 2.4 million dot OLED EVF in the NEX-7 is not bad by all accounts.
Look at the solution Nikon is using for their 1 serrie cameras, they weren't the first though but it's easier to find things about them.
The sacrifice a few pixels and made them so that the can do Phase focus, so you have PDAF on the sensor. =]

I have already wrote it down but i would love to see cameras with morpihc mirrors that can turn translucant and LCD shutters.
Almost all mechanical parts would be gone, sadly they are still a bit slow but for 645D it would have more advantages than disadvantages and you can still use the camera like you have always done.
I only have no isea about the price of thoe materials... LCD shutters are cheap but the mirror...
12-21-2011, 11:39 PM   #371
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Comming back on the price-talk: What makes a FF camera so much more expensive? Only the bigger sensor?

I still think the average Pentaxian is poor. Mostly, that's why they chose Pentax in the first place. If Pentax could produce a FF much cheaper then the mainstream brands, then they would have gold in their hands.
12-22-2011, 12:01 AM   #372
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
For your information, the mirror in SLR with AF also lets light through for the AF sensor.
Behind the main mirror there is a second mirror, the main mirror reflects the light up to the viewfinder and the second reflects the light down to the AF sensor.
I can confirm that is true, but I fail to see the relevance of this fact to what I said.

The relevant aspect is that the mirror in an SLR reflects most of the light to an OVF, while the mirror in an SLT lets most of the light go to the sensor. The reflection of light to the AF sensor which both do is besides the point.
12-22-2011, 12:26 AM   #373
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Comming back on the price-talk: What makes a FF camera so much more expensive? Only the bigger sensor?

I still think the average Pentaxian is poor. Mostly, that's why they chose Pentax in the first place. If Pentax could produce a FF much cheaper then the mainstream brands, then they would have gold in their hands.
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the cost factors. I would guess one of the big costs is the design, tool design, and manufacturing costs of the camera. Why? Because these overhead costs must be borne by a much smaller customer base. Divide the total overhead cost by the number of projected customers = the overhead cost per camera of the design and manufacturing effort. Then the material cost including the sensor, then the marketing cost, and finally the cost of the retail store. All borne by many fewer customers than a PS or an aps camera. Thats why the manufacturers can afford to update the aps cameras more frequently than the FF cameras. Cameras must pay for themselves.
12-22-2011, 12:43 AM   #374
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I am assuming that Pentax have already designed at least a couple of FF DSLR Cameras over recent years and that the CAD files are ready to go at any time. Scaling up aspects of the K-5 to FF would be a piece of cake for a decent CAD operator so I really can't understand why people think it's like 2 years away etc... Tooling up is just a matter of feeding the CAD files into the machines. They could probably start knocking out units tomorrow. My guess is that the software for the camera is where the hard stuff begins... but even that could be transferred I suppose. Only the market share would be preventing Pentax from releasing a FF based on traditional designs so a contemporary camera that's cheaper to produce is more likely to bear fruit in this area I believe.
12-22-2011, 01:43 AM   #375
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I am a little confused. I didn't know Pentax made any lenses for FF? Am I wrong?
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