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12-17-2011, 01:59 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
Any information from a reliable source is good information.

Just because they mentioned mirrorless FF doesn't mean that will be the only thing they do. I'm kind of surprised they would mention that so early in the game though... unless they have it nearing production.


The 645D mirrorless is the really interesting comment I think.

Right now the current sensor can't do live view or video, so what does that mean?
- A new sensor for the 645 cameras.

-Or the mirrorless camera will have an optical viewfinder somehow.

Interesting possibilities aren't they?
Digital medium format rangefinder???

12-17-2011, 01:59 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote


Pentax can do this with Full Frame. They can make an adapter for K-mount that recreates the registration distance.
And reduce the power storage. I would much rather see a k-5 battery in there. This will most likely mean a thicker body. The extra body thickness could be put to some good use. Maybe add a control ring around the lens mount. Kind of like the Olympus OM series cameras has the shutter speed control ring around the lens mount. Then keep the other two control dials to have three control dials.

The thickness of the M-4/3 cameras are thick enough to be not pocket size. So way bother with the extra thin register distance. Only advance I can see is to be able to take adopters. Being able to take Leica M-series lenses would be nice for the end user. Might not be nice for Pentax trying to sell lenses.

Dave
12-17-2011, 01:59 PM - 1 Like   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by tjk911 Quote
Yeah I've been asking a few times as well why Mirrorless FF = no K mount. From what I can discern, it's to do with how close the lenses are to the sensor. But if Sony can create a-to-e mounts, Pentax should be able to do the same.

But I haven't had the time to do much reading on it and no one has really explained to me either. *confused*
The lenses are designed to focus on the sensor. If you move the sensor closer you change the focal plane. Moving the sensor that close means than your old lenses will not be able to focus. Lenses need to be redesigned if you change the register distance. That is the very simple version.
12-17-2011, 02:06 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
The 645D mirrorless is the really interesting comment I think.

Right now the current sensor can't do live view or video, so what does that mean?
- A new sensor for the 645 cameras.
-Or the mirrorless camera will have an optical viewfinder somehow.

Interesting possibilities aren't they?
Leica has said the next S2 will have a CMOS MF sensor with LV and HD Video. Pretty sure Pentax will be moving the same direction.

Knowing Leica's history I think there is a good chance that Leica will be the first to introduce a MF EVIL/Range Finder body. It just fits what they are about.

12-17-2011, 02:07 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
What arguments should I put here? Well, the first is shooting with my A50/f1.2 and K-5 was like a lottery. In 99.9% cases focus was missed. Most of my good shots with this lens were taken via LV. I have at least 30-40% hit ratio in not so good lightning with the NEX. Of course, the OVF is more pleasant to use, but not crappy ones with APS-C cameras. They are inferior.
While I'm not entirely sure if I agree with your example/argument - 99.9% really? - but I will admit that there are certain benefits to EVF that might contribute to MF being more accurate. I've used them, don't know if I would like them, but the zooming features I've seen would contribute to MF accuracy.

To me, preference for the EVF is similar to some people preferring splitscreen focusing screens. Helps with the accuracy, but it doesn't mean that the original viewfinder is "inferior."
12-17-2011, 02:09 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The lenses are designed to focus on the sensor. If you move the sensor closer you change the focal plane. Moving the sensor that close means than your old lenses will not be able to focus. Lenses need to be redesigned if you change the register distance. That is the very simple version.
Kind sire, thank you. I "guessed" that it might have been the reason but thanks for explaining it properly to me. Appreciate it a great deal lol.
12-17-2011, 02:15 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by tjk911 Quote
Yeah I've been asking a few times as well why Mirrorless FF = no K mount. From what I can discern, it's to do with how close the lenses are to the sensor. But if Sony can create a-to-e mounts, Pentax should be able to do the same.

But I haven't had the time to do much reading on it and no one has really explained to me either. *confused*
It is the distance, the mirror needs its space and current lenses have been standardised with a mount flange to sensor (originally film) plane distance ('register distance') to make this possible (~45 mm for Pentax). If the mirror is eliminated, this distance can be shorter and the camera body slimmer, which is usually desirable. With a slimmer body, the register distance would be smaller, new lenses would be standardized for this, old lenses would need an adapter to move them outward to restore the register distance to the standard they were built for.
12-17-2011, 02:15 PM   #98
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And we will here more on monday? I guess I will sleep on it

12-17-2011, 02:20 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
And we will here more on monday? I guess I will sleep on it
No, dude. No announcement on Monday.
12-17-2011, 02:26 PM - 1 Like   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by tjk911 Quote
Yeah I've been asking a few times as well why Mirrorless FF = no K mount. From what I can discern, it's to do with how close the lenses are to the sensor. But if Sony can create a-to-e mounts, Pentax should be able to do the same.

But I haven't had the time to do much reading on it and no one has really explained to me either. *confused*
Pentax-Ricoh could do the same, sure. Glassless adapters are trivial. Maybe we've already had a hint of the new PFF-EVIL cam's register: 27.8mm.

Why that? Hint: What was the last GXR mountor that Ricoh announced? Think, Leica-M. Did Ricoh release an M-mount device just on a whim? I hereby prophesize that the new RM mount will be an M-mount with AF. The PK adapter would be (45.46-27.8)= 17.66mm= ~0.7in thick. The upcoming EOS, FD, M/MD and Konica adapters will be a little thinner; the AI and R and T adapters will be a little thicker. The LTM-L39 adapter will look just like a wide-flange no-infinity-focus M42-PK adapter.

Another "why that": Because that register easily supports full frames. The shorter registers of NEX (18mm), m4/3 (18mm) and NX (25.5) probably don't. (But I could be wrong there. That happens occasionally.)

Last edited by RioRico; 12-17-2011 at 02:34 PM.
12-17-2011, 02:27 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
And reduce the power storage. I would much rather see a k-5 battery in there. This will most likely mean a thicker body. The extra body thickness could be put to some good use. Maybe add a control ring around the lens mount. Kind of like the Olympus OM series cameras has the shutter speed control ring around the lens mount. Then keep the other two control dials to have three control dials.

The thickness of the M-4/3 cameras are thick enough to be not pocket size. So way bother with the extra thin register distance. Only advance I can see is to be able to take adopters. Being able to take Leica M-series lenses would be nice for the end user. Might not be nice for Pentax trying to sell lenses.

Dave
It really wont matter. Lenses for APS-C or FF really can not be made small enough to be pocket-able. The advantage is not to be able to make a FF that is pocket-able, but to make a FF or even a MF that is a little smaller than the K-7/K-5. High quality glass is going to be BIG. Size is only one reason to look into EVIL.
12-17-2011, 02:40 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
a FF Kx/MX/Lx would make many people happy. with an un-crippled K mount. and the 4 lenses are easy-peasy given how many historically excellent lenses they have to work from in those sizes. Still there will be the need for the big zooms, but Pentax is very good a compact high quality cameras and primes
That would be perfect for me... But could they sell it? I don't know.

I think you are right on the big zooms. I'm not much of a zoom user but if I was paying my mortgage with photography I probably would be. That Nikon 24-70 is huge. I looked at it in a store and just said no. But I bet they sell a lot of them.
12-17-2011, 02:55 PM   #103
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...I just won't wake up out of this nightmare...

I just cancelled my order of 2 DA lenses... Just untill more is known.
12-17-2011, 03:06 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I agree completely. Got my A50/1.2 today and it was unusable with the optical finder. In Live View I got a hit rate of 50% (mainly because LV was too slow in use).

I only accept a FF DSLR if it has the same great viewfinder as the Pentax LX or even the Pentax ME-Super. Anything else and I'd prefer a FF EVIL camera.
I concur, manual focusing with a K-r and M50 f/1.4 - and what is seen in the viewfinder at f/1.4 does not at all represent what is in the final image at f/1.4 because the viewfinder is so small. Physics man, you can't beat the physics of it.

Haha - a retro-styled FF. I'm afraid function should trump fashion until all the bugs are taken out on such a new venture. But I'm all for the retro look. Anyways, I'll wait for the official release....
12-17-2011, 03:27 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Lenses for APS-C or FF really can not be made small enough to be pocket-able.
I seem to recall some mighty small AF pancakes. MF can be even smaller. That's how I'm building a mini-kit of tiny old FF ultralight primes. No, fast AF zooms will never be small. Not nearly as small as the old F35-70 anyway, which is barely larger than the FA50/1.4.

But even fast glass needn't be huge. Case in point: Some thread here dealt with objective sizes. It prompted me to measure some of my 28s, where I found these diameters -- objectives, not threads:

* Vivitar-Kiron 28/2.5: 48mm
* Soligor-Tokina 28/2.8: 44mm
* Vivitar-Komine 28/2 CF: 33mm
* Tamron BBAR 28/2.5: 22mm

That Tamron 28/2.5 objective is pretty tiny; the lens internally is much smaller than the Kiron 28/2.5. Its body is mostly bloat -- the elements occupy only a small central section -- and it's just 4cm thick. A shrunken AF version would likely still be bloated-out a little to fit the fat fingers of feckless fotomaniacs.
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