Mr. Kitazawa slated to announce Pentax upcoming bodies in Dec 19'th

eddie1960 · 12-17-2011, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by tjk911

How so? It seems to have a fair bit of potential even though it's definitely not my cup of tea.

My main concern however is that Sony uses the same mount for their SLRs and SLTs, while a different one for their NEX system.

If Pentax comes out with an EVIL FF, I'd rather it be able to use the K-mount (something almost every poster here has echoed lol)

SLt is a dinosaur idea Sony revived. I gave them Machine gun capability and cost them performance (at least 1/3 stop) Sony already gets the worst preformanc out of their sensor of the 3

I also think given Ricoh's past history they will do something very different (look at the GXR series) Pentax also has taken the road less traveled many times so it's a good match

Kunzite · 12-17-2011, 12:32 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Winder

If Pentax does not have solutions to the problems of heat and SR then they would not be considering FF EVIL. Do people people really think that Pentax has not thought about these things?

You're wrong on this one; we'll just be asked to cope with all those issues - same as for the current mirrorless toys. They can't solve what cannot be solved (i.e. sensor/electronics/EVF will have to be powered and working just to be able to see through that d*mn thing).

Seeing with your own eyes (with an optical instrument) will never be obsolete. But photography is now about gadgets, rather than seeing. I'm looking forward when this forum will applaud the inclusion of Tetris in the EVF... NOT!

**Fontan** · 12-17-2011, 12:38 PM

Looking at K-5 debacle, I cannot to a certain extent blame some of you for actually thinking that you know better than Pentax engineers. But, these engineers are probably not as stupid as you think.

**boriscleto** · 12-17-2011, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Seeing with your own eyes (with an optical instrument) will never be obsolete. But photography is now about gadgets, rather than seeing. I'm looking forward when this forum will applaud the inclusion of Tetris in the EVF... NOT!

Are you that stuck in the '90s? It's all about Angry Birds now.

Kryscendo · 12-17-2011, 12:41 PM

What K-5 debacle? From the looks of it, the K-5 has one of the best sensors out on the market according to DXO.

So where? Debacle where? Do you just like using the word because I have seen a "K-r debacle," a "645D debacle" and now a "K-5 debacle."

Where?!

Clavius · 12-17-2011, 12:43 PM

I've looked through EVF's quite a few times, and hated it every time. (e.g. I've owned the NEX5) The image on a EVF seems so fake. And that logical, because it IS fake.

Doing photography via a screen on the back of a camera blows chunks. I've owned liveview-capable camera's ever since liveview came out. And I think I've used it about twice.

K1D27H · 12-17-2011, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Kryscendo

What K-5 debacle? From the looks of it, the K-5 has one of the best sensors out on the market according to DXO.

So where? Debacle where? Do you just like using the word because I have seen a "K-r debacle," a "645D debacle" and now a "K-5 debacle."

Where?!

He probably refers to the sensor stain problem found in the earlier units of K-5, Kryscendo.

But again, D7000 and SLT 55 do share the very same sensor. So it is a matter of calibration by each company's engineers, I guess.

falconeye · 12-17-2011, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by JohnBee

According to Pete Fang from DPreview, Mr. Kitazawa, who is head of Pentax's camera R&D, told a Japanese DC Magazine that Pentax is working on a mirror-less 35mm full-frame camera "and..." is even considering a mirror-less 645D.

We should await the article been published. As for now, it talks about mirrorless, 35mm FF and 645. And I guess Pentax now really works on all 3 topics, besides the mandatory APS-C upgrades. AFAICS, the article said that there won't be a 645 mirrorless which is the opposite of the rumor.

So, until further notice, I speculate that this means that Pentax works on a mirrorless and a FF, but not necessarily a mirrorless FF.

Winder · 12-17-2011, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Kryscendo

What K-5 debacle? From the looks of it, the K-5 has one of the best sensors out on the market according to DXO.

So where? Debacle where? Do you just like using the word because I have seen a "K-r debacle," a "645D debacle" and now a "K-5 debacle."

Where?!

The K-5 sensor stains was a pretty big screw-up. The AF issues have not been huge, but well documented. There has been some serious QC issues in the past. SDM, sensor stains, shutter vibration.... Not quite a debacle, but not the smoothest couple of years either.

Clavius · 12-17-2011, 12:47 PM

This would mean dumping the K-mount, because mirrorless will allow for a much closer registry distance.

Of course, maybe you can still use your 'old' and 'retired' FA's and DA's with some kind of adapter. But it's like running a MSDOS emulator on Windows 7, to run a very old program you still use. A switch to a different, more serious and professional platform, with real DSLR's, would then start to appeal to me.

I was afraid Pentax would slap their user base in the face. Instead they chose to stab them in the back.

If this rumor is true, then this goes against what Pentax stated: moving to a more towards equipment for the professional and serious amateur. They promised more professionalism, but chose the dinky-toy route.

... On the other hand. I'll finally be able to buy some more expensive glass. I predict people are gonna dump their DA's on ebay.

**Fontan** · 12-17-2011, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

We should await the article been published. As for now, it talks about mirrorless, 35mm FF and 645. And I guess Pentax now really works on all 3 topics, besides the mandatory APS-C upgrades. AFAICS, the article said that there won't be a 645 mirrorless which is the opposite of the rumor.

So, until further notice, I speculate that this means that Pentax works on a mirrorless and a FF, but not necessarily a mirrorless FF.

I typically agree with what you say, but here I disagree. The direct translation is that they are "doing" the FF version of mirrorless, and they are "thinking" about 645d mirrorless. The nuance I sense is that FF is a done deal, and 645d still in early stages.

I will be buying this issue, and keep it to myself (lol).

Emacs · 12-17-2011, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

I've looked through EVF's quite a few times, and hated it every time. (e.g. I've owned the NEX5) The image on a EVF seems so fake. And that logical, because it IS fake.

You'll get the FAKE anyway, dude

But for me the NEX-5N (N!) EVF is superior in regard of focus accuracy. The MF is a joy now.

Kunzite · 12-17-2011, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Are you that stuck in the '90s? It's all about Angry Birds now.

No, it will be Tetris - and EVF fans will be extremely happy about it because:
- playing games in the EVF? It can be done, so it should (OTOH not being able to see is regarded as irrelevant)
- OK, Tetris is an old game - but think about the future, someday they will really put Angry Birds in there! So give up on everything for that future promise!
- think about new applications - a news reader, posting on Facebook and other useful things. Of course, from time to time you'd have to lower the camera and it's everbusy EVF in order to see if, by any chance, there is an interesting picture you'd like to take (but this is optional).

Clavius, indeed.
I don't believe in fully supporting the K-mount and a parallel, higher-level EVF system. There are only two companies who had both DSLRs and mirrorless: Sony and Olympus. Both gave up on DSLRs.

But we should wait at least for a proper translation.

Emacs, I will not get the fake, period.

K1D27H · 12-17-2011, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

I've looked through EVF's quite a few times, and hated it every time. (e.g. I've owned the NEX5) The image on a EVF seems so fake. And that logical, because it IS fake.

Doing photography via a screen on the back of a camera blows chunks. I've owned liveview-capable camera's ever since liveview came out. And I think I've used it about twice.

I tried using cameras with EVF like SLT77, Fuji X100(EVF mode), and GXR and I get the feeling that I have been staring at a monitor for 8 hours straight . Still, that is just me.

Clavius · 12-17-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Emacs

You'll get the FAKE anyway, dude

Nope, I'd rather get a real professional camera, with a real OVF from Pentaxes competitors.

Originally posted by Emacs

But for me the NEX-5N (N!) EVF is superior in regard of focus accuracy. The MF is a joy now.

That says more about your eyesight then it says about the NEX5N. I've owned it, and it's a toy. MF is ten times more easier on the K5. Why? Because the image in the OVF is the REAL image. Not some kind of display that shows a picture that doesn't even look like the scene the camera is pointed at.

12-17-2011, 12:47 PM	#70
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	This would mean dumping the K-mount, because mirrorless will allow for a much closer registry distance. Of course, maybe you can still use your 'old' and 'retired' FA's and DA's with some kind of adapter. But it's like running a MSDOS emulator on Windows 7, to run a very old program you still use. A switch to a different, more serious and professional platform, with real DSLR's, would then start to appeal to me. I was afraid Pentax would slap their user base in the face. Instead they chose to stab them in the back. If this rumor is true, then this goes against what Pentax stated: moving to a more towards equipment for the professional and serious amateur. They promised more professionalism, but chose the dinky-toy route. ... On the other hand. I'll finally be able to buy some more expensive glass. I predict people are gonna dump their DA's on ebay. Last edited by Clavius; 12-17-2011 at 01:29 PM.

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12-17-2011, 12:31 PM	#61
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by tjk911 How so? It seems to have a fair bit of potential even though it's definitely not my cup of tea. My main concern however is that Sony uses the same mount for their SLRs and SLTs, while a different one for their NEX system. If Pentax comes out with an EVIL FF, I'd rather it be able to use the K-mount (something almost every poster here has echoed lol) SLt is a dinosaur idea Sony revived. I gave them Machine gun capability and cost them performance (at least 1/3 stop) Sony already gets the worst preformanc out of their sensor of the 3 I also think given Ricoh's past history they will do something very different (look at the GXR series) Pentax also has taken the road less traveled many times so it's a good match

12-17-2011, 12:32 PM - 1 Like	#62
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Winder If Pentax does not have solutions to the problems of heat and SR then they would not be considering FF EVIL. Do people people really think that Pentax has not thought about these things? You're wrong on this one; we'll just be asked to cope with all those issues - same as for the current mirrorless toys. They can't solve what cannot be solved (i.e. sensor/electronics/EVF will have to be powered and working just to be able to see through that d*mn thing). Seeing with your own eyes (with an optical instrument) will never be obsolete. But photography is now about gadgets, rather than seeing. I'm looking forward when this forum will applaud the inclusion of Tetris in the EVF... NOT!

12-17-2011, 12:38 PM	#63
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Looking at K-5 debacle, I cannot to a certain extent blame some of you for actually thinking that you know better than Pentax engineers. But, these engineers are probably not as stupid as you think.

12-17-2011, 12:40 PM	#64
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by Kunzite Seeing with your own eyes (with an optical instrument) will never be obsolete. But photography is now about gadgets, rather than seeing. I'm looking forward when this forum will applaud the inclusion of Tetris in the EVF... NOT! Are you that stuck in the '90s? It's all about Angry Birds now.

12-17-2011, 12:41 PM	#65
Kryscendo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 222	What K-5 debacle? From the looks of it, the K-5 has one of the best sensors out on the market according to DXO. So where? Debacle where? Do you just like using the word because I have seen a "K-r debacle," a "645D debacle" and now a "K-5 debacle." Where?!

12-17-2011, 12:43 PM	#66
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	I've looked through EVF's quite a few times, and hated it every time. (e.g. I've owned the NEX5) The image on a EVF seems so fake. And that logical, because it IS fake. Doing photography via a screen on the back of a camera blows chunks. I've owned liveview-capable camera's ever since liveview came out. And I think I've used it about twice.

12-17-2011, 12:44 PM	#67
K1D27H Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Nakhon Pathom, Thailand Photos: Gallery Posts: 109	Originally posted by Kryscendo What K-5 debacle? From the looks of it, the K-5 has one of the best sensors out on the market according to DXO. So where? Debacle where? Do you just like using the word because I have seen a "K-r debacle," a "645D debacle" and now a "K-5 debacle." Where?! He probably refers to the sensor stain problem found in the earlier units of K-5, Kryscendo. But again, D7000 and SLT 55 do share the very same sensor. So it is a matter of calibration by each company's engineers, I guess.

12-17-2011, 12:44 PM	#68
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by JohnBee According to Pete Fang from DPreview, Mr. Kitazawa, who is head of Pentax's camera R&D, told a Japanese DC Magazine that Pentax is working on a mirror-less 35mm full-frame camera "and..." is even considering a mirror-less 645D. We should await the article been published. As for now, it talks about mirrorless, 35mm FF and 645. And I guess Pentax now really works on all 3 topics, besides the mandatory APS-C upgrades. AFAICS, the article said that there won't be a 645 mirrorless which is the opposite of the rumor. So, until further notice, I speculate that this means that Pentax works on a mirrorless and a FF, but not necessarily a mirrorless FF.

12-17-2011, 12:45 PM	#69
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Kryscendo What K-5 debacle? From the looks of it, the K-5 has one of the best sensors out on the market according to DXO. So where? Debacle where? Do you just like using the word because I have seen a "K-r debacle," a "645D debacle" and now a "K-5 debacle." Where?! The K-5 sensor stains was a pretty big screw-up. The AF issues have not been huge, but well documented. There has been some serious QC issues in the past. SDM, sensor stains, shutter vibration.... Not quite a debacle, but not the smoothest couple of years either.

12-17-2011, 12:51 PM	#71
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Originally posted by falconeye We should await the article been published. As for now, it talks about mirrorless, 35mm FF and 645. And I guess Pentax now really works on all 3 topics, besides the mandatory APS-C upgrades. AFAICS, the article said that there won't be a 645 mirrorless which is the opposite of the rumor. So, until further notice, I speculate that this means that Pentax works on a mirrorless and a FF, but not necessarily a mirrorless FF. I typically agree with what you say, but here I disagree. The direct translation is that they are "doing" the FF version of mirrorless, and they are "thinking" about 645d mirrorless. The nuance I sense is that FF is a done deal, and 645d still in early stages. I will be buying this issue, and keep it to myself (lol).

12-17-2011, 12:53 PM	#72
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by Clavius I've looked through EVF's quite a few times, and hated it every time. (e.g. I've owned the NEX5) The image on a EVF seems so fake. And that logical, because it IS fake. You'll get the FAKE anyway, dude But for me the NEX-5N (N!) EVF is superior in regard of focus accuracy. The MF is a joy now.

12-17-2011, 01:01 PM	#73
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by boriscleto Are you that stuck in the '90s? It's all about Angry Birds now. No, it will be Tetris - and EVF fans will be extremely happy about it because: - playing games in the EVF? It can be done, so it should (OTOH not being able to see is regarded as irrelevant) - OK, Tetris is an old game - but think about the future, someday they will really put Angry Birds in there! So give up on everything for that future promise! - think about new applications - a news reader, posting on Facebook and other useful things. Of course, from time to time you'd have to lower the camera and it's everbusy EVF in order to see if, by any chance, there is an interesting picture you'd like to take (but this is optional). Clavius, indeed. I don't believe in fully supporting the K-mount and a parallel, higher-level EVF system. There are only two companies who had both DSLRs and mirrorless: Sony and Olympus. Both gave up on DSLRs. But we should wait at least for a proper translation. Emacs, I will not get the fake, period.

12-17-2011, 01:05 PM	#74
K1D27H Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Nakhon Pathom, Thailand Photos: Gallery Posts: 109	Originally posted by Clavius I've looked through EVF's quite a few times, and hated it every time. (e.g. I've owned the NEX5) The image on a EVF seems so fake. And that logical, because it IS fake. Doing photography via a screen on the back of a camera blows chunks. I've owned liveview-capable camera's ever since liveview came out. And I think I've used it about twice. I tried using cameras with EVF like SLT77, Fuji X100(EVF mode), and GXR and I get the feeling that I have been staring at a monitor for 8 hours straight . Still, that is just me.

12-17-2011, 01:10 PM	#75
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Emacs You'll get the FAKE anyway, dude Nope, I'd rather get a real professional camera, with a real OVF from Pentaxes competitors. Originally posted by Emacs But for me the NEX-5N (N!) EVF is superior in regard of focus accuracy. The MF is a joy now. That says more about your eyesight then it says about the NEX5N. I've owned it, and it's a toy. MF is ten times more easier on the K5. Why? Because the image in the OVF is the REAL image. Not some kind of display that shows a picture that doesn't even look like the scene the camera is pointed at.