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**Clinton** · 12-20-2011, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

The electronics in the FA* lenses is old and outdated.

New circuitry shouldn't be hard to come up with. They know the specs, and it's not rocket science.

Originally posted by Asahiflex

The glass recipes from that era do not exist anymore. They will not use leaded glass in future products (there is lead containing glass in the FA* series with a different refractive index). It just won't happen. Sorry!

How do they produce and sell the FA Ltds? Have they removed the lead from them, and if so, is it a different optical formula on the later lenses?

**Pål Jensen** · 12-20-2011, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Of course they won't start from scratch, but referring to the FA* series is not very helpful if the end result is a completely new lens with a different optical scheme, different glass and different coating. Such a new lens will have no relation to the FA* series whatsoever, apart from probably the focal length and zoom range. The rendering and color transmission will be very different. If one wants the FA* series then one should buy them second hand

They have already done this at least twice: the DA* 200/2.8 is the same optical construction as the FA* 200/2.8. The D-FA 50/2.8 Macro is the FA 50/2.8 Macro if I'm not mistaken. Replacing one element with another one with the same properties without lead is not rocket science (BTW wasn't it lead in the electronics that was the culprit?).

falconeye · 12-20-2011, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

(BTW wasn't it lead in the electronics that was the culprit?).

I think so. E.g., Pentax told me so. It is lead in the soldiering. Optical glass is exempt from the new regulations.

eddie1960 · 12-20-2011, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

They have already done this at least twice: the DA* 200/2.8 is the same optical construction as the FA* 200/2.8. The D-FA 50/2.8 Macro is the FA 50/2.8 Macro if I'm not mistaken. Replacing one element with another one with the same properties without lead is not rocket science (BTW wasn't it lead in the electronics that was the culprit?).

Add DFA 100 2.8 macro to that list. it was an updated fa 100 2.8 (updated twice in fact with the WR variant)

Anvh · 12-20-2011, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

Add DFA 100 2.8 macro to that list. it was an updated fa 100 2.8 (updated twice in fact with the WR variant)

Da 35 f/2.4 use the same formula as the FA35 f/2 as well.

Asahiflex · 12-20-2011, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

I think so. E.g., Pentax told me so. It is lead in the soldiering. Optical glass is exempt from the new regulations.

Well, that was correct for a short time, but the future is different: RoHS recast: implications for optical materials

gazonk · 12-20-2011, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Well, that was correct for a short time, but the future is different: RoHS recast: implications for optical materials

Sigh. Brought to you by the same EU that has brought an avalanche of mercury into the ecosystem by outlawing old-fashioned lightbulbs

**Fontan** · 12-20-2011, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Clinton

But they do have so much invested in lenses. They have already done the R&D on the FA* and FA Limited lenses, lenses which are so good that the glass is still out-resolving our current sensors. Just because they aren't producing them doesn't mean much. AFAIK, they could start producing them again at any time, to pair up with their FF camera.

I bet you that next DSLR will be APS-C(lol), exactly because they have so much vested in their DA lenses. By keeping APS-C, Pentax may think that they can stretch the milking of DA and DA* line up. They might as well do that. I also think that they will throw a bone or two by adding another interesting focal length primes when nobody is expecting. They will prop up without rumors.

For FF mirrorless, the body will be relatively cheap in comparison to DSLR counterpart for obvious reasons. But if Pentax believes that the future of the market direction is mirrorless, then it would make sense to spend substantial R&D (they don't have to sweat it any more) in entirely new FF lens line up. I see reasonably priced "kit" FF primes and zooms that go with the body, along with the expansion of D FA lenses. There will be D FA*'s, I am sure. I think they got what they could out of FA* and FA limiteds, and they have exceeded their wildest expectations. While resolution may not be as much an issue, there maybe other issues that can warrant a design update or two to make improvements (again not in resolution). Also, having attached my FA limiteds to my M8, I can tell you that Pentax will probably like to make their lenses smaller. That aspect alone is probably a reason enough to come up with a newly designed line up.

bossa · 12-20-2011, 03:01 PM

It would be suicide to Pentax to go with the old standards when they have a real shot at 'redefining' the up-market digital camera. To produce FA* lenses again would be insane in that context. It's not about that which already exists but what is possible. Unless Pentax embrace this new era they may as well just pack up and quit now.

The following are all possibilities I suppose (some more than others) and any duplication of hardware isn't cost effective so I can't see leaf shutters being included in lenses anytime soon. The idea is to reduce costs and make a profit.
Composite Digital Lenses
No (mechanical) shutter
EVF
No mirror
Modular Sensors, veiwfinders & body kits
Square format sensor with electronic formatting of aspect ratio

EDIT: Re' the Composite Digital Lenses remark: Ricoh has already started the ball rolling in this direction with their analogue lens/Sensor combos. This technology is more likely to appear first in P&S or phones at first though and is probably 10 years away.

pz1fan · 12-20-2011, 06:41 PM

Mostly vaporware, IMO.

Electronic aperture? Same answer as SLT:"No thanks". Air gap between lens and sensor works best.

**Clinton** · 12-20-2011, 06:58 PM

Everyone seems so gung-ho for a new lens line. Woot! We can shave a whopping 5mm off the lens mount by throwing away a formula that has worked for 30 years, and destroy all backwards compatibility. Thrilling really.

Again, I say why bother? use the air space for other things, but while you're at it, keep in mind that the Pentax K mount film bodies are crazy thin in comparison to the K-5 because there is lots of stuff behind the sensor.

If you're trying to save space, why not make the body exactly the size of the sensor. Just a hockey puck that attaches to the lens. <saracam>Everyone will love that.</saracam>

Also throw away the pesky mechanical focus, because everyone whom buys Pentax loves SDM.

Sure, make an adapter... maybe one that works as well as the prototypes of the K adapter for the Q. You know, the one with all manual controls. </rant>

johnmflores · 12-20-2011, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Clinton

keep in mind that the Pentax K mount film bodies are crazy thin in comparison to the K-5 because there is lots of stuff behind the sensor.

Yup

Almost M43 thin....

jsherman999 · 12-20-2011, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Clinton

Everyone seems so gung-ho for a new lens line. Woot! We can shave a whopping 5mm off the lens mount by throwing away a formula that has worked for 30 years, and destroy all backwards compatibility. Thrilling really.

Not to mention; why even stick with Pentax if the new cameras require a whole new mount, new lenses? If you have to build a new lens collection from the ground up anyway, maybe take the opportunity to switch to Panasonic or Fuji, or wait about 6 months to see what Sony delivers or a year to see what CaNikon delivers in aps-c or FF format mirrorless?

.

bossa · 12-20-2011, 07:27 PM

What a bunch of Luddites. Why go with pneumatic tyres when you can have a wagon wheel, right?

johnmflores · 12-20-2011, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by bossa

What a bunch of Luddites. Why go with pneumatic tyres when you can have a wagon wheel, right?

An innovator asks, "What can I do with this new thing?"
A Luddite asks, "What can't I do with this new thing?"

12-20-2011, 03:01 PM	#279
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	It would be suicide to Pentax to go with the old standards when they have a real shot at 'redefining' the up-market digital camera. To produce FA* lenses again would be insane in that context. It's not about that which already exists but what is possible. Unless Pentax embrace this new era they may as well just pack up and quit now. The following are all possibilities I suppose (some more than others) and any duplication of hardware isn't cost effective so I can't see leaf shutters being included in lenses anytime soon. The idea is to reduce costs and make a profit. Composite Digital Lenses No (mechanical) shutter EVF No mirror Modular Sensors, veiwfinders & body kits Square format sensor with electronic formatting of aspect ratio EDIT: Re' the Composite Digital Lenses remark: Ricoh has already started the ball rolling in this direction with their analogue lens/Sensor combos. This technology is more likely to appear first in P&S or phones at first though and is probably 10 years away. Last edited by bossa; 12-20-2011 at 03:07 PM.

12-20-2011, 07:14 PM	#283
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Dropping K-mount means a net loss of patronage Originally posted by Clinton Everyone seems so gung-ho for a new lens line. Woot! We can shave a whopping 5mm off the lens mount by throwing away a formula that has worked for 30 years, and destroy all backwards compatibility. Thrilling really. Not to mention; why even stick with Pentax if the new cameras require a whole new mount, new lenses? If you have to build a new lens collection from the ground up anyway, maybe take the opportunity to switch to Panasonic or Fuji, or wait about 6 months to see what Sony delivers or a year to see what CaNikon delivers in aps-c or FF format mirrorless? .

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12-20-2011, 08:17 AM	#271
Clinton Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,915	Originally posted by Asahiflex The electronics in the FA* lenses is old and outdated. New circuitry shouldn't be hard to come up with. They know the specs, and it's not rocket science. Originally posted by Asahiflex The glass recipes from that era do not exist anymore. They will not use leaded glass in future products (there is lead containing glass in the FA* series with a different refractive index). It just won't happen. Sorry! How do they produce and sell the FA Ltds? Have they removed the lead from them, and if so, is it a different optical formula on the later lenses?

12-20-2011, 08:39 AM	#272
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Asahiflex Of course they won't start from scratch, but referring to the FA* series is not very helpful if the end result is a completely new lens with a different optical scheme, different glass and different coating. Such a new lens will have no relation to the FA* series whatsoever, apart from probably the focal length and zoom range. The rendering and color transmission will be very different. If one wants the FA* series then one should buy them second hand They have already done this at least twice: the DA* 200/2.8 is the same optical construction as the FA* 200/2.8. The D-FA 50/2.8 Macro is the FA 50/2.8 Macro if I'm not mistaken. Replacing one element with another one with the same properties without lead is not rocket science (BTW wasn't it lead in the electronics that was the culprit?).

12-20-2011, 08:56 AM	#273
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Pål Jensen (BTW wasn't it lead in the electronics that was the culprit?). I think so. E.g., Pentax told me so. It is lead in the soldiering. Optical glass is exempt from the new regulations.

12-20-2011, 09:02 AM	#274
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by Pål Jensen They have already done this at least twice: the DA* 200/2.8 is the same optical construction as the FA* 200/2.8. The D-FA 50/2.8 Macro is the FA 50/2.8 Macro if I'm not mistaken. Replacing one element with another one with the same properties without lead is not rocket science (BTW wasn't it lead in the electronics that was the culprit?). Add DFA 100 2.8 macro to that list. it was an updated fa 100 2.8 (updated twice in fact with the WR variant)

12-20-2011, 09:15 AM	#275
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by eddie1960 Add DFA 100 2.8 macro to that list. it was an updated fa 100 2.8 (updated twice in fact with the WR variant) Da 35 f/2.4 use the same formula as the FA35 f/2 as well.

12-20-2011, 11:15 AM	#276
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by falconeye I think so. E.g., Pentax told me so. It is lead in the soldiering. Optical glass is exempt from the new regulations. Well, that was correct for a short time, but the future is different: RoHS recast: implications for optical materials

12-20-2011, 12:06 PM	#277
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Asahiflex Well, that was correct for a short time, but the future is different: RoHS recast: implications for optical materials Sigh. Brought to you by the same EU that has brought an avalanche of mercury into the ecosystem by outlawing old-fashioned lightbulbs

12-20-2011, 02:09 PM	#278
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Originally posted by Clinton But they do have so much invested in lenses. They have already done the R&D on the FA* and FA Limited lenses, lenses which are so good that the glass is still out-resolving our current sensors. Just because they aren't producing them doesn't mean much. AFAIK, they could start producing them again at any time, to pair up with their FF camera. I bet you that next DSLR will be APS-C(lol), exactly because they have so much vested in their DA lenses. By keeping APS-C, Pentax may think that they can stretch the milking of DA and DA* line up. They might as well do that. I also think that they will throw a bone or two by adding another interesting focal length primes when nobody is expecting. They will prop up without rumors. For FF mirrorless, the body will be relatively cheap in comparison to DSLR counterpart for obvious reasons. But if Pentax believes that the future of the market direction is mirrorless, then it would make sense to spend substantial R&D (they don't have to sweat it any more) in entirely new FF lens line up. I see reasonably priced "kit" FF primes and zooms that go with the body, along with the expansion of D FA lenses. There will be D FA's, I am sure. I think they got what they could out of FA and FA limiteds, and they have exceeded their wildest expectations. While resolution may not be as much an issue, there maybe other issues that can warrant a design update or two to make improvements (again not in resolution). Also, having attached my FA limiteds to my M8, I can tell you that Pentax will probably like to make their lenses smaller. That aspect alone is probably a reason enough to come up with a newly designed line up.

12-20-2011, 06:41 PM	#280
pz1fan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: United States Posts: 183	Mostly vaporware, IMO. Electronic aperture? Same answer as SLT:"No thanks". Air gap between lens and sensor works best.

12-20-2011, 06:58 PM	#281
Clinton Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,915	Everyone seems so gung-ho for a new lens line. Woot! We can shave a whopping 5mm off the lens mount by throwing away a formula that has worked for 30 years, and destroy all backwards compatibility. Thrilling really. Again, I say why bother? use the air space for other things, but while you're at it, keep in mind that the Pentax K mount film bodies are crazy thin in comparison to the K-5 because there is lots of stuff behind the sensor. If you're trying to save space, why not make the body exactly the size of the sensor. Just a hockey puck that attaches to the lens. <saracam>Everyone will love that.</saracam> Also throw away the pesky mechanical focus, because everyone whom buys Pentax loves SDM. Sure, make an adapter... maybe one that works as well as the prototypes of the K adapter for the Q. You know, the one with all manual controls. </rant>

12-20-2011, 07:09 PM	#282
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by Clinton keep in mind that the Pentax K mount film bodies are crazy thin in comparison to the K-5 because there is lots of stuff behind the sensor. Yup Almost M43 thin....

12-20-2011, 07:27 PM	#284
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	What a bunch of Luddites. Why go with pneumatic tyres when you can have a wagon wheel, right?

12-20-2011, 07:41 PM	#285
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by bossa What a bunch of Luddites. Why go with pneumatic tyres when you can have a wagon wheel, right? An innovator asks, "What can I do with this new thing?" A Luddite asks, "What can't I do with this new thing?"

Mr. Kitazawa slated to announce Pentax upcoming bodies in Dec 19'th

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