Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-22-2011, 05:33 AM   #196
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 172
QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
to me the most earthshaking disclosure there is the potential which I had never considered for electronic shake reduction.
What does "electronic shake reduction" mean here? I've seen the term used to refer to a video technique of shifting each frame to recentre the image, but that doesn't help with still images. I've also seen it used to mean increasing ISO to increase shutter speed (and noise), but that's nothing new. If the exposure is so long that a point image moves over several pixels, I don't see what you can do electronically to fix that. You can either mechanically move the sensor to compensate, or try to undo it in software, but neither of those is "electronic".

QuoteOriginally posted by P虱 Jensen Quote
You can always buy a grip to make a small camera larger. Making large cameras smaller is not that simple....
Adding a grip doesn't make the buttons bigger. Part of the pleasure of a larger body comes from having more space for the UI, with more controls and larger controls.

12-22-2011, 06:15 AM   #197
Pentaxian
Raffwal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 64ー57' North
Posts: 806
QuoteOriginally posted by selar Quote
The only one that looked comfortable was Samsung NX, but I haven't actually held one.
The bigger NX10 (and obviously NX11) is surprisingly nice to hold and use. I only wish it had a more up to date sensor and perhaps SR.
12-22-2011, 10:10 AM   #198
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,509
QuoteOriginally posted by Brangdon Quote
You can either mechanically move the sensor to compensate, or try to undo it in software, but neither of those is "electronic".
.
Instead of moving the sensor, you can shift which sensor pixel that records the data for each pixel of the final image.
12-22-2011, 01:34 PM   #199
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,406
Pentax has some kind of "electronic shake reduction" in one of their point&shoot, it's called "Pixel Track". I don't think it works as well as the proper SR.

gazonk, I'm not sure how that "shift" could work, with a single exposure. Maybe by boosting ISO and taking&combining several frames? In this case, a similar "digital stabilisation" as for movies could be used.

12-22-2011, 01:38 PM   #200
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 3,012
QuoteOriginally posted by Brangdon Quote
... You can either mechanically move the sensor to compensate, or try to undo it in software, but neither of those is "electronic".
If software on your computer can de-blur image shake, then theoretically the camera firmware (which is really software) can be programmed do the same thing. We may have to wait few years before cameras have enough processing power to accomplish that but it could be a 100% electronic solution.

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Instead of moving the sensor, you can shift which sensor pixel that records the data for each pixel of the final image.
Gazonk, I think you missed what Brangdon was trying to say (or maybe I missed it). For single exposure shake reduction, something (either the sensor or lens) has to mechanically move in order to stabilize the image. Imagine 2 adjacent pixels on the sensor. The camera is aimed so one pixel is recording black while the other is recording white. If the camera shakes so that both pixels record a grayish mix, electronics might not be able to undo that for a single exposure.

Perhaps a future Pentax camera will capture everything as high res video, then stack multiple frames into an even higher quality combined single exposure; HDR on steroids.
12-22-2011, 01:42 PM   #201
Pentaxian
Raffwal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 64ー57' North
Posts: 806
I was a bit surprised as they're talking about "software SR", because until now that has been used in cheaper P&S cameras and that has been usually regarded crap. Then again, provided you have enough pixels to play with, I see no real reason why it couldn't work pretty well.
12-22-2011, 08:53 PM   #202
Senior Member
Spare Tire's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montr饌l
Posts: 120
for software SR: photoshop has to process an image for several seconds with a powerful computer to deshake an image
don't think you could do that in camera for practical purposes

12-23-2011, 02:11 AM   #203
Senior Member
Kryscendo's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 223
Powerful computer is relative. Ten years ago, a powerful computer was a top of the line Windows Xp rig with what, 4 gigs of ram?

I get your point that at the moment it is implausible, but who truly knows?

12-23-2011, 02:47 AM   #204
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,406
QuoteOriginally posted by Spare Tire Quote
for software SR: photoshop has to process an image for several seconds with a powerful computer to deshake an image
don't think you could do that in camera for practical purposes
But what if you already know the shake amount and direction? (i.e. using accelerometers to record, and software to computationally correct it)
12-23-2011, 05:02 AM   #205
Pentaxian
Emacs's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,221
I can count 4 different SR approaches.
1) Lens based. Larger and heavier lenses with worse optical performance compared to non stabilized versions.
2) Moving sensor. I can be very effective. Pentax, Olympus and Sony proved this.
3) Have larger sensor and then decide what part of image to use base on the shake detection. It's the arguably the best one: ie it causes no IQ reduction and the best stabilization which is only limited by shake detectors accuracy and software (which is very simple). I would love to see this approach implemented one day.
4) Have the same sensor as with #2 and try to stabilize the image by software methods only. Undoubtedly the worst approach. May cause dramatic IQ degradation.
12-23-2011, 05:31 AM   #206
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,406
Your "best" SR approach won't work at all, because just by cropping you can't "fix" a blurry image. Something else must be added, before calling it "image stabilization"
12-23-2011, 05:50 AM   #207
Pentaxian
Emacs's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,221
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Your "best" SR approach won't work at all, because just by cropping you can't "fix" a blurry image. Something else must be added, before calling it "image stabilization"
Yes, true, shitty one. My mistake
12-24-2011, 01:33 AM   #208
Senior Member
Kryscendo's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 223
Maybe they can incorporate a very quick and sensitive accelerometer to detect how the camera is moving and adjust for any hand shake that way.
12-24-2011, 06:57 AM   #209
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,790
QuoteOriginally posted by Kryscendo Quote
Maybe they can incorporate a very quick and sensitive accelerometer to detect how the camera is moving and adjust for any hand shake that way.
That's how the Pentax SR works currently.
12-24-2011, 07:11 AM   #210
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 336
Steadicam rigs have existed for video for some time, but it seems to me that it should also be feasible to add a gyroscope to an SLR grip to reduce the handheld shake before the shot is taken.

Obviously, this isn't something that you'd want all the time, which is why it would be best implemented in a grip.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, cameras, frame, full-frame, future, kitazawa, laughter, mirrorless, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, slr
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mr. Kitazawa slated to announce Pentax upcoming bodies in Dec 19'th JohnBee Pentax News and Rumors 429 01-02-2012 09:57 AM
Question Translation of PM's... Where to switch it off??? Rense Site Suggestions and Help 3 07-24-2011 06:32 AM
Interview w/ Pentax Head of Marketing - NEEDS TRANSLATION illdefined Pentax News and Rumors 17 09-29-2010 02:13 AM
Translation from PMA Pentax Interview - new DSLR body this year and company strategy Katsura Pentax News and Rumors 66 09-23-2007 04:15 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:00 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top