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01-03-2012, 07:50 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I don't think that Simpson's car is FF. I was thinking something more like this:



Maybe the OVF is a bit of a reach, but I could see a bigger GXR body working well with something like this. The NEX cameras, after all, are little more than LCD-sized themselves.

Heck, make the "pro" GXR body big enough for MF while we're at it....
That looks an awful lot like The Homer

If you're keeping the K-mount, you're keeping the OVF, so it's a DSLR.

Kludges like the above-referenced adapter will not sit well on retail shelves and create all sorts of design, support, sales, marketing, and warranty issues.

If EVF's surpass OVF's at some point, maybe pellicle is the way to go to preserve K-mount.

If Pentax needs a large sensor mirrorless camera (APS-C+) a new mount is almost certain. A crippled adapter is a possibility for K-mount backwards functionality, but it will be a tiny sideline to the main product.

The Ricoh sensor modules are a kludge in and of themselves and get modest to poor reviews. I suspect they have terrible overhead and near zero marketing appeal, meaning they are costly and marginal to mainstream consumer purchasing. Even m4/3, trying to capture the market, went with retro styling, as has the Fuji X100. The Ricoh system has none of that.

So if K-mount persists in DSLR format, the question is can Pentax support both APS-C and FF? Their market share casts serious doubts on this as this market is tiny in relative terms with little elasticity. At least Hoya was absolutely honest about that.

Can Pentax make a larger-than-the-Q mirrorless? Probably. In fact they may have to. Likely not FF. That's a huge risk and market stretch. The number of shooters who are willing to pay over $2,000 for a mirrorless body is unknown. At that price point the size of the market is very, very small and the likelihood that any Pentax tech will sway Canikon users to Pentax as an alternative is highly dubious.

01-03-2012, 08:32 AM   #317
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Why do you suppose that an FF mirrorless is competing against canikon? It's competing against Leica and IF it were to cost 2000$ it would VASTLY undercut Leica.
01-03-2012, 08:56 AM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
So if K-mount persists in DSLR format, the question is can Pentax support both APS-C and FF? Their market share casts serious doubts on this as this market is tiny in relative terms with little elasticity. At least Hoya was absolutely honest about that.
Hoya was in fact less than honest about their intentions for Pentax Imaging. They were working on the 'bolster for 18-month unload' plan, even though they made noise about 'commitment'. Hoya was only indirectly honest about not wanting to spend any more money on something they had no intention of growing or keeping.

QuoteQuote:
...Can Pentax make a larger-than-the-Q mirrorless? Probably. In fact they may have to. Likely not FF. That's a huge risk and market stretch. The number of shooters who are willing to pay over $2,000 for a mirrorless body is unknown. At that price point the size of the market is very, very small and the likelihood that any Pentax tech will sway Canikon users to Pentax as an alternative is highly dubious.
You keep imagining this static, enclosed market, encased in economic amber, forever trapped with 2007 tech. Ricoh is looking at revenue streams for periods beyond 18 months, and emerging markets. FF (in some form) fits nicely into plans for a camera + lens-selling division of a large multinational corp like Ricoh. They are forward-looking, aggressive, and have vastly more resources than Pentax-standalone ever did.


.

Last edited by jsherman999; 01-03-2012 at 09:04 AM.
01-03-2012, 09:02 AM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
That looks an awful lot like The Homer

If you're keeping the K-mount, you're keeping the OVF, so it's a DSLR.

Kludges like the above-referenced adapter will not sit well on retail shelves and create all sorts of design, support, sales, marketing, and warranty issues.

If EVF's surpass OVF's at some point, maybe pellicle is the way to go to preserve K-mount.

If Pentax needs a large sensor mirrorless camera (APS-C+) a new mount is almost certain. A crippled adapter is a possibility for K-mount backwards functionality, but it will be a tiny sideline to the main product.

The Ricoh sensor modules are a kludge in and of themselves and get modest to poor reviews. I suspect they have terrible overhead and near zero marketing appeal, meaning they are costly and marginal to mainstream consumer purchasing. Even m4/3, trying to capture the market, went with retro styling, as has the Fuji X100. The Ricoh system has none of that.

So if K-mount persists in DSLR format, the question is can Pentax support both APS-C and FF? Their market share casts serious doubts on this as this market is tiny in relative terms with little elasticity. At least Hoya was absolutely honest about that.

Can Pentax make a larger-than-the-Q mirrorless? Probably. In fact they may have to. Likely not FF. That's a huge risk and market stretch. The number of shooters who are willing to pay over $2,000 for a mirrorless body is unknown. At that price point the size of the market is very, very small and the likelihood that any Pentax tech will sway Canikon users to Pentax as an alternative is highly dubious.
Come on, that Sony adapter is only a hair uglier than the Leica M module for the GXR!



If anything, the bulges and whatnot on the Leica M module suggest that they've pushed the GXR idea into territory that it really wasn't designed for. But it does offer a tantalizing glimpse of a system with an upgradeable sensor. So maybe it's time that the GXR got a bigger brother, GXR2 that can support APS-C and FF more comfortably.

I agree that the modular approach as defined by the GXR has a limited market due to it's apparent complexity. Most people, after all, buy a dSLR with a kit lens and use that 90% of the time. But Ricoh Pentax can really shake up the top-end of the consumer market if they can design a system that can go from P&S sized to dSLR sized with the swapping of lens and modules.

I hope that someone deep within the Pentax skunkworks is charged with such a Frankenstein.

01-03-2012, 09:49 AM   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
You keep imagining this static, enclosed market, encased in economic amber, forever trapped with 2007 tech. Ricoh is looking at revenue streams for periods beyond 18 months, and emerging markets. FF (in some form) fits nicely into plans for a camera + lens-selling division of a large multinational corp like Ricoh. They are forward-looking, aggressive, and have vastly more resources than Pentax-standalone ever did.
This is quite funny.

Ricoh is known as a commodity company where they depend not on tech to sell their copiers but low prices and a sales force. Their strategy has been comparable to Fuji's in P&S: be everywhere at every price point; don't compete technically. That's how Ricoh came to be a big copier brand. That's the boardroom and corporate DNA.

Ricoh's camera division is pretty much a non-player in markets external to Japan. It has almost no measurable retail presence or shelf space. It's module system generates pretty much no sales and has not caught on in any measurable way anywhere. It's expensive and terribly compromised. Where Ricoh tried to innovate, it failed. Flopped entirely.

So they bought Pentax whchi has a large legacy system. Hoya brought out the K-x and K-5 and 645D, so they did not allow Pentax to flounder at all. this is what makes Pentax a brand to buy.

But this idea that FF will allow Pentax into a competitive market space is silly because at the price of FF you gain very few customers and almost no new ones. So a push at the very high-end here is flawed as it does nothing to correct the main Pentax/Ricoh problem which is market share.

The market for dedicated cameras is very conservative. Very. Like autos. Change is evolutionary, not revolutionary and older systems endure for decades after new models come out. The digital pace is dropping some chaff, but overall the bets-selling systems by far are DSLR's, with sales *still* increasing.

There is a lot of sentiment here about retaining K-mount. Technically and economically that means retaining a mirror. And right behind K-mount sentiment is the desire for an OVF, so now we're at a traditional SLR system complete with mirror and prism (not pellicle). It all works very well with AF faster than human reaction times and outstanding metering, as well as deep cultural and product (lens) investment legacies. It's a time-tested and very entrenched market.

Mirrorless will rationalize the camera market considerably, probably in the majority. But that's
a long way from making DSLR's obsolete, or planning to do so through a corporate strategy that relies on new tech married to legacy glass through a godawful ugly adapter system attached to a market failure of a GXR module prototype.

QuoteOriginally posted by Spare Tire Quote
Why do you suppose that an FF mirrorless is competing against canikon? It's competing against Leica and IF it were to cost 2000$ it would VASTLY undercut Leica.
No one competes with Leica for market space. FEW who want a Leica do not value shop elsewhere. Those who do are inconsequential to the market dynamic. There's always been nibbles around the edges (Minolta, Canon, Nikon, and Contax all produced very serious Leica challengers), and Leica almost went bust in its flawed approach to digital, but Leica is in the super-elite luxury brand product category. Frankly, the sensor they use is not very good.
01-03-2012, 10:09 AM   #321
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
This is quite funny.

Ricoh is known as a commodity company where they depend not on tech to sell their copiers but low prices and a sales force. Their strategy has been comparable to Fuji's in P&S: be everywhere at every price point; don't compete technically. That's how Ricoh came to be a big copier brand. That's the boardroom and corporate DNA.

Ricoh's camera division is pretty much a non-player in markets external to Japan. It has almost no measurable retail presence or shelf space. It's module system generates pretty much no sales and has not caught on in any measurable way anywhere. It's expensive and terribly compromised. Where Ricoh tried to innovate, it failed. Flopped entirely.

So they bought Pentax whchi has a large legacy system. Hoya brought out the K-x and K-5 and 645D, so they did not allow Pentax to flounder at all. this is what makes Pentax a brand to buy.

But this idea that FF will allow Pentax into a competitive market space is silly because at the price of FF you gain very few customers and almost no new ones. So a push at the very high-end here is flawed as it does nothing to correct the main Pentax/Ricoh problem which is market share.


Mirrorless will rationalize the camera market considerably, probably in the majority. But that's
a long way from making DSLR's obsolete, or planning to do so through a corporate strategy that relies on new tech married to legacy glass through a godawful ugly adapter system attached to a market failure of a GXR module prototype.
I'll agree that Ricoh is for all intents a 0% outside of Japan, but I'd be less quick to call the GXR a failure. No, it's not a breakout hit, but I'd imagine that it's sold in numbers greater than its predecessors GX100 and GX200 and has manage to put the Ricoh name on the lips of more enthusiasts than ever before. Sometimes an idea needs a couple of iterations before taking off, i.e., smart phones, tablet computing, etc...

This is all quite funny because just a couple of years ago IIRC you were predicting that FF would drop so low in price as to put enthusiast APS-C cameras like the K-7 then and K-5 now at risk of extinction. IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), you've also dismissed M43 as a dead-end that could not compete against the sunk-cost end-cap darling entry level dSLR. Maybe the event horizon is still out for that one, but Olympus financial issues aside, M43 has actually gone from strength to strength these last couple of years.

This predicting is all in good fun though, isn't it. I wish there was a way we could go back and see if any of the predictions any of us made back in 2008/2009 came true!
01-03-2012, 10:14 AM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spare Tire Quote
Why do you suppose that an FF mirrorless is competing against canikon? It's competing against Leica and IF it were to cost 2000$ it would VASTLY undercut Leica.
This actually is an interesting question, especially if we are to guess what Pentax's intention would be for developing such a camera.

I am not sure if they are looking into undercutting Leica, but then if you think about 645D, it probably did undercut S2. In fact, I know of several people who held off on buying S2 because 645D was coming out, and when it did, they did buy 645D. This I think is an unique situation, however. For example, I am sure that there are more than a few M8 owners wanting to upgrade to M9, but I am not sure how enticing it is for M8 owners to have a thought of Pentax building FF mirrorless. At least around Leica forum, NEX-7 has not been accepted as viable alternative to M8, even. I am really not sure about this.

I for one would consider such a camera instead of M9. But, there is a rumor that Leica is about to introduce M10, and M9 will come down in price. I predict though by the end of this year, you can probably get a second hand M9 for less than $4,000. Price gap will be narrower than we think, and then undercutting seems less attractive. Leica owners in general are not all that concerned about the cost of their equipment to begin with anyway.

Then, what is in it for Pentax to come out with FF mirrorless? I am not so sure about this one either. One is that the market is shifting in that direction. No question about it. Pentax seems determined to approach this market again differently, judging from what they did with Q. With mirrorless, m4/3 and APS-C market is already beginning to get saturated. They went for slightly different segment of the market with Q. Maybe they are looking to do the same with FF mirrorless at the opposite end of the spectrum.

If they are to do FF mirrorless, I am almost 100% certain that they will not do a FF DSLR. After all this seems a bit silly. If they improved on APS-C, as they "tried" with K-5, then they can keep selling their DA lens line up. This makes sense. I bet they can make the DSLR smaller. I think that is what they are going for. I really don't think that they want K-5 to be the last DSLR with all the crap that went with it.

This is why that if they are to do mirrorless FF, they will have a new mount and a line up of lenses(kit primes and zooms and high end primes perhaps), designed from ground up. It only makes sense this way, at least to me, especially with financial backing from Ricoh. Adapters, how cumbersome and ugly they may look, will have to be there because of the legacy lens issue. Pentax will not blow that off.

At least in Japan, amongst serious photographers, Pentax has very good favorable brand image, even compared to that of Sony. I think what Pentax can go for is the segment of the market that is interested in Sony mirrorless, who are probably not Canikon users. BTW, in japan, Ricoh also has quite a cult like following with GXR. Their brand image is not bad either. I for one loves those contrasty pictures taken by GXR.

It suddenly makes a great deal of sense for me.

Last edited by Fontan; 01-03-2012 at 10:20 AM.
01-03-2012, 12:27 PM   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
This is quite funny.

Ricoh is known as a commodity company where they depend not on tech to sell their copiers but low prices and a sales force. Their strategy has been comparable to Fuji's in P&S: be everywhere at every price point; don't compete technically. That's how Ricoh came to be a big copier brand. That's the boardroom and corporate DNA.
Sounds like you're describing Apple, except s/corporate/consumer/. Terrible strategy, that!


QuoteQuote:
But this idea that FF will allow Pentax into a competitive market space is silly because at the price of FF you gain very few customers and almost no new ones. So a push at the very high-end here is flawed as it does nothing to correct the main Pentax/Ricoh problem which is market share.
Again, "Market trapped in amber with 2007 tech" thinking. Static-market thinking. 18-month thinking. The ILC camera market is healthy and expanding, and emerging markets could blow it up in 10 years. Exactly what Ricoh is looking for.

If there is any question about Ricoh's willingness to spend money to compete, consider:

"...Ricoh last October bought major U.S. office equipment distributor Ikon Office Solutions for $1.6 billion, delivering a heavy blow to Canon, whose machines had represented 60 percent of the products Ikon handled before the October acquisition but have rapidly been replaced with Ricoh equipment since then...'"

Now, think about that Ikon acquisition for a moment relative to the Pentax deal - Ricoh bought Pentax for only $124 Million. Laying down another $50 million on top of that investment to roll out more lenses and deliver a FF body is not something Ricoh C-level execs would even lose sleep over. It could be considered a one-rank pawn move in an ongoing global chess match with Canon.


.

01-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Sounds like you're describing Apple, except s/corporate/consumer/. Terrible strategy, that!




Again, "Market trapped in amber with 2007 tech" thinking. Static-market thinking. 18-month thinking. The ILC camera market is healthy and expanding, and emerging markets could blow it up in 10 years. Exactly what Ricoh is looking for.

If there is any question about Ricoh's willingness to spend money to compete, consider:

"...Ricoh last October bought major U.S. office equipment distributor Ikon Office Solutions for $1.6 billion, delivering a heavy blow to Canon, whose machines had represented 60 percent of the products Ikon handled before the October acquisition but have rapidly been replaced with Ricoh equipment since then...'"

Now, think about that Ikon acquisition for a moment relative to the Pentax deal - Ricoh bought Pentax for only $124 Million. Laying down another $50 million on top of that investment to roll out more lenses and deliver a FF body is not something Ricoh C-level execs would even lose sleep over. It could be considered a one-rank pawn move in an ongoing global chess match with Canon.


.
Exactly, the mistake most people are making is thinking like HOYA who really were just holding the company and cutting costs to raise profitability. Short term view towards disposal of an asset they didn't want anyway

Ricoh on the other hand said they bought the company to grow it. that says longer term investment to me. and 50-100 million more is still peanuts compared to the cost of their main business, but would be massive compared to any investments made in the last ten years
01-03-2012, 01:00 PM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I'll agree that Ricoh is for all intents a 0% outside of Japan, but I'd be less quick to call the GXR a failure. No, it's not a breakout hit, but I'd imagine that it's sold in numbers greater than its predecessors GX100 and GX200 and has manage to put the Ricoh name on the lips of more enthusiasts than ever before. Sometimes an idea needs a couple of iterations before taking off, i.e., smart phones, tablet computing, etc...
Ricoh made stellar RF systems in 135 format before digital. They were known as a high-quality producer who also branded some low-end stuff. I cannot see a modular camera system being that desirable or, frankly, affordable, even with rock bottom sensor prices. People already have enough angst choosing lenses; adding sensor choice to that mix (at much higher prices due to redundancy) simply does not work on the spreadsheet, both corporate and consumer/enthusiast. I think that is a major reason why Ricoh bought Pentax.

QuoteQuote:
This is all quite funny because just a couple of years ago IIRC you were predicting that FF would drop so low in price as to put enthusiast APS-C cameras like the K-7 then and K-5 now at risk of extinction. IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), you've also dismissed M43 as a dead-end that could not compete against the sunk-cost end-cap darling entry level dSLR. Maybe the event horizon is still out for that one, but Olympus financial issues aside, M43 has actually gone from strength to strength these last couple of years.
When Sony dropped their FF prices below $2,000 with the Alpha 850, the writing was on the wall. FF would take over the middle ground and the (then pending) Pentax 645D would slot in a notch above the D3x. high-end APS-C was to shift down a price point or two.

But what happened with Sony really clarified the industry and consumer market, effectively proving Nikon right and Sony wrong:

Camera bodies over $1,500 are a very, very hard sell.

So difficult in fact that Sony has since stopped all production of FF cameras. It appears that once you pop over $1,500 for a camera body and the associated high-price lens array, the number of global customers drops from the millions to the tens of thousands . That leaves room for maybe 2 players: Canon and Nikon, and the nutballs who like Leica. That leaves pretty much no room for Pentax to leverage FF into greater market share, which is the ultimate Pentax problem. This is especially true when there is very constrained FF sensor supply with really only Sony being the manufacturer.

Sony had a choice: subsidize FF at lower than Canikon price points to chew market share and commoditize the FF chip fab, or throw in the towel and go in another direction. They chose the latter, partly because Sony's mothership has been bleeding red ink for something like 15 quarters straight now. They went pellicle and E-mount instead and may revisit FF in the near future. Almost their entire current FF sensor supply is being manufactured for Nikon for the last 2 quarters.

Sony's issues also proved how conservative the camera market really is. Very, very few people migrate brands, particularly at high price points. Sony got almost no Canikon users to shift. Price is only a partial determinant in this rarefied atmosphere. Those who did move are almost treated as defectors in the Cold War; minor celebrities of suspect motive.

Pentax will eventually need FF, but they will have to see Sony, Canon, and Nikon define the market first at the correct price points. Until FF sensor prices drop substantially, Pentax/Ricoh has a very difficult time getting to FF. The one good point is that overall DSLR sales are still increasing in overall unit volume. This is good news in troubled economic times.

m4/3 is an interim sensor as prone to competition as the Nikon (and maybe Q....not really) systems below it and APS-C above it. NEX sales in Japan says so. X1/J1 will be a huge threat if the price is right. Fuji will be coming on with an APS-C ILC pseudo-RF system with Leica saying they may play in that space as well, and maybe we'll see Canon in there potentially because they are the Big Dog in this hunt....eventually. If Pentax needs a large sensor it's going to be APS-C. Simply put, APS-C sensor are superior to anything m4/3 has put out or will put out. in 3 years m4/3 cameras will be no different than any other mirrorless, with no built-in innovations. The only advantage they may have is a larger lens range, which will not last, compared to the major disadvantage of a smaller sensor and weaker low-light performance.

I actually like the m4/3 cameras in good light. It's appealing gear, though I find the Panny line cramped and gimmicky (like Sony...more electronic than 'camera"). In low-light, especially indoors, I find them 2-3 stops worse than my K-x with a much inferior VF and AF responsiveness. That's where they do not compete. Some of their lenses feel like plastic, especially for the price.

The blunt reality with mirrorless is that all the major players worry that it will cannibalize their DSLR sales (and the lucrative bridge camera segment) and force them into dual-line, costly revamps of both production and marketing to try an wow two distinct user bases with the same brand. Sony is fearless because they need/demand market share whereas Nikon is keeping mirrorless far away from their DSLR cash cow. Canon is so scared they've done nothing, and their DSLR sales are still increasing. Fuji had nothing to lose, but the X100 is far too expensive to sway a market. Ricoh has tried the very expensive and cumbersome dead-end module tech.
01-03-2012, 01:03 PM   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Sounds like you're describing Apple, except s/corporate/consumer/. Terrible strategy, that!
More like H-P which has turned into a company that can only deliver commodity ink and cheap Intel CPU's sold bulk to government and large corporations. Pretty much zero innovation there.
01-03-2012, 01:10 PM   #327
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Again, "Market trapped in amber with 2007 tech" thinking. Static-market thinking. 18-month thinking. The ILC camera market is healthy and expanding, and emerging markets could blow it up in 10 years. Exactly what Ricoh is looking for.

If there is any question about Ricoh's willingness to spend money to compete, consider:

"...Ricoh last October bought major U.S. office equipment distributor Ikon Office Solutions for $1.6 billion, delivering a heavy blow to Canon, whose machines had represented 60 percent of the products Ikon handled before the October acquisition but have rapidly been replaced with Ricoh equipment since then...'"

Now, think about that Ikon acquisition for a moment relative to the Pentax deal - Ricoh bought Pentax for only $124 Million. Laying down another $50 million on top of that investment to roll out more lenses and deliver a FF body is not something Ricoh C-level execs would even lose sleep over. It could be considered a one-rank pawn move in an ongoing global chess match with Canon.
Ikon is old tech. The whole photocopier biz is a sunset industry, albeit with a few decades to go. My own office actively discourages printing and all docs must be PDF'd for review, not printed now.

Ikon was acquired because of this. Canon may lose some revenues, but the copier biz is no longer an innovative biz, nor one generating enough external profit to fund R&D elsewhere. We are far from the halcyon days of Xerox PARC!

I have no doubt the ILC market is expanding. So far Pentax has the Q as their player.

I think you are overestimating the willingness of execs dropping $50 million on FF Pentax for the minuscule market share we represent.

Caveat: I worked as an intern for 3 months for Ikon way back when. Every Friday afternoon the sales team in all their testosterone happiness, rich from selling contracts to school boards and car dealerships, would gather for a "team meeting" which consisted of KFC and porn movies.

One other important point: the DSLR market is also healthy and expanding. This is not a scenario of one market eclipsing the other, certainly not in the near or medium terms.
01-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Ikon is old tech. The whole photocopier biz is a sunset industry, albeit with a few decades to go. My own office actively discourages printing and all docs must be PDF'd for review, not printed now.

Ikon was acquired because of this. Canon may lose some revenues, but the copier biz is no longer an innovative biz, nor one generating enough external profit to fund R&D elsewhere. We are far from the halcyon days of Xerox PARC!

I have no doubt the ILC market is expanding. So far Pentax has the Q as their player.

I think you are overestimating the willingness of execs dropping $50 million on FF Pentax for the minuscule market share we represent.

Caveat: I worked as an intern for 3 months for Ikon way back when. Every Friday afternoon the sales team in all their testosterone happiness, rich from selling contracts to school boards and car dealerships, would gather for a "team meeting" which consisted of KFC and porn movies.

One other important point: the DSLR market is also healthy and expanding. This is not a scenario of one market eclipsing the other, certainly not in the near or medium terms.
you're a bit out of touch with the ricoh copier marketing strategy, they've been moving to document storage and archiving and trying to shift the paradigm away from print only. I recently met with the local Ricoh guy as our copier/printer contracts are up and I am sourcing quotes on replacement alternatives. The friday meetings you talk about sound old days (Hell i've been taken out by Panasonic to Hockey games then off to the strip joint after back in the early eighties. Times have changed.

I agree though the copier industry is in decline.

Sony stopped manufacturing the FF cameras, but they have new ones coming,. the market may not be huge but if the 3 cameras Sony is rumoured to be bringing to market are true then obviously they don't agree with you.

As for the GXR actually reception of what was designed as a niche product fronm the get go has been good. I doubt they thought it would take massive market share but it has done better than they planned. the 12 mp M mountor sold so well that they will replace it with a 16mp variant later this year because they ran out of 12mp sensors faster than they thought they would (I imagine there will be 16mp variants of the 12 mp lensors coming as well once they sell out.) It's a very different design, it suffers from poor distribution in NA, but we are not the only market. It has done well in Europe and Asia.
Maybe with access to Pentax distribution they will get it distributed in Canada (Speaking with some guys at the main Vistek they want it, Have been asked for it and have lost sales to US online since there is no Canadian distribution for RIcoh
Not all the world fits in your narrow view, but I will give you it s the (current) bulk of the market. At one point of course TLRs were the bulk of the market.
Companies like Pentax and Ricoh (along with Sony and the m43 guys and samsung) have to distinguish themselves from Canikon and drive innovation.
If Milc is it (and i'm not a massive fan) then bring on a FF milc, a 645 Milc (something has to be the digital replacement for the mamya 7)
50 million BTW in Ricoh's world is not much money. It is a lot but in the greater scheme of things it is acceptable risk level money.
they initially killed Canon in copiers through a price battle. they no longer do that if anyhting their proposals come at higher prices now but with Value added enhancements
changing the FF paradigm with a hot priced unique item would be a similar step with a 5 year plan that includes moves to higher price value added items to support profit
01-03-2012, 01:46 PM   #329
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Now, think about that Ikon acquisition for a moment relative to the Pentax deal - Ricoh bought Pentax for only $124 Million.
This was an estimate from Nikkei's analysts, and not the actual figure.
01-03-2012, 01:52 PM   #330
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
This was an estimate from Nikkei's analysts, and not the actual figure.
it still is indicative of how little it cost them form their corporate acquisition standpoint whether it was 124 million or 200 million it was low cost by comparison
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