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12-23-2007, 07:37 AM   #16
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The k10D is a full featured camera that has everything most anyone will ever need.

12-23-2007, 07:40 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by thosan Quote
Yes it is, but i still have my S3 IS (yes i know a dslr will rock it pretty hard) and i'm one of those dudes that likes new and shiny toys eventhough K10D will probably be more then i need in the beginning.
thosan, I have an S3is as well! Great little camera with a huge zoom.

K10D would be a worthy upgrade, however if you are not in a rush you may want to wait for the new cameras.

I have an older Pentax DSLR and waiting to see what Pentax releases next year. Still use my S3is quite a bit though, as it is so handy to leave in my coat pocket.
12-23-2007, 10:24 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
stewart
Notes: The title was abbreviated for succinctness. If you read the last sentence again, you'll notice my comments apply equally to both the announcement and release dates. After all, it is highly unlikely Pentax would even want to announce a product in January which might not be available for another three, four, or more months. - stewart
Stewart,

There is very good logic in what you say when it comes to availability of the new bodies. The announcement is another story. A lot of time and money has been invested already in planning a Paris press conference that Ben has said he will be one of the quests. There may be an announcement even earlier then that. The CES show is in early January and they may make the announcement then. From a marketing point of view Pentax needs to let the upscale buyers know something is coming. We know they have, at the least, some advanced beta models so an announcement shouldn't be a problem.

As for availability, I've felt all along that it will be very difficult for them to get production out to stores before April, May, or June. Announcing a $1,200 to $1,400 model 90 to 120 days before release will not hurt sales of the K10D, might even help. The rumor campaign has been to well orchestrated not to have been approved by Pentax. They needed the rumor campaign and an announcement in January to quell all of the bad press about the ramifications of the Hoya takeover.

Regards,

Ken
12-23-2007, 10:30 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Stewart,

There is very good logic in what you say when it comes to availability of the new bodies. The announcement is another story. A lot of time and money has been invested already in planning a Paris press conference that Ben has said he will be one of the quests. There may be an announcement even earlier then that. The CES show is in early January and they may make the announcement then. From a marketing point of view Pentax needs to let the upscale buyers know something is coming. We know they have, at the least, some advanced beta models so an announcement shouldn't be a problem.

As for availability, I've felt all along that it will be very difficult for them to get production out to stores before April, May, or June. Announcing a $1,200 to $1,400 model 90 to 120 days before release will not hurt sales of the K10D, might even help. The rumor campaign has been to well orchestrated not to have been approved by Pentax. They needed the rumor campaign and an announcement in January to quell all of the bad press about the ramifications of the Hoya takeover.

Regards,

Ken
Unless there is something about the K10D that nobody knows... :ugh:

12-23-2007, 10:36 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Unless there is something about the K10D that nobody knows... :ugh:
Chris,
That response left me scratching my head. Can't figure out if you are talking about me saying the new body won't hurt K10D sales or something else.

Ken
12-23-2007, 11:40 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
There is very good logic in what you say when it comes to availability of the new bodies. The announcement is another story. (snip)

I'm not insisting I'm right, so perhaps you are. However, I still think everything is on hold until after the actual merger itself. An announcement by Pentax now would be committing Hoya to a very specific and expensive business direction, something Hoya would likely find unacceptable without full involvement and control over that. And Hoya is simply not going to get that level of involvement or control until after the merger.

stewart
12-23-2007, 12:01 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
I'm not insisting I'm right, so perhaps you are. However, I still think everything is on hold until after the actual merger itself. An announcement by Pentax now would be committing Hoya to a very specific and expensive business direction, something Hoya would likely find unacceptable without full involvement and control over that. And Hoya is simply not going to get that level of involvement or control until after the merger.

stewart
Very good point. An announcement, however, is not a commitment. Plans can always change. An announcement gives Hoya some breathing space. "Sure, let them go ahead with the news conference, no biggie, might even get us some good press until we figure out if we are going to spend the money, ride what they have, or dump it. The preorders it generates might even help us decide what to do." I know that sounds cynical but it comes from hanging around to many marketing managers.

Ken
12-23-2007, 12:10 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snowcat Quote
(snip) Later announcement, later release - loss of money...

Read point three (3) of my message again. From a shareholder's perspective, actual production now would result in a greater loss of money since the entire financial burden would be borne by Pentax shareholders alone. Therefore, many of those shareholders are likely thinking it is better to wait off until after the merger so production costs can be shared by a wider base of shareholders - both the existing Pentax shareholders and the merging Hoya shareholders (less per individual shareholder). At the same time, again from their perspective, profits from the new product will be forthcoming regardless of the release date.

stewart

12-23-2007, 12:36 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Read point three (3) of my message again. From a shareholder's perspective, actual production now would result in a greater loss of money since the entire financial burden would be borne by Pentax shareholders alone. Therefore, many of those shareholders are likely thinking it is better to wait off until after the merger so production costs can be shared by a wider base of shareholders - both the existing Pentax shareholders and the merging Hoya shareholders (less per individual shareholder).
But what if they do announce in January and starts production 1st of April, when the new fiscal year starts and the merger is completed?
12-23-2007, 12:41 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Read point three (3) of my message again. From a shareholder's perspective, actual production now would result in a greater loss of money since the entire financial burden would be borne by Pentax shareholders alone. Therefore, many of those shareholders are likely thinking it is better to wait off until after the merger so production costs can be shared by a wider base of shareholders - both the existing Pentax shareholders and the merging Hoya shareholders (less per individual shareholder). At the same time, again from their perspective, profits from the new product will be forthcoming regardless of the release date.

stewart
HOYA owns something like 98% of the shares currently... Most of the "finilizing" is just on paper ..............Pentax stock is delisted so no longer easily traded..
http://www.pentax.co.jp/english/news/announce/20071029-02.pdf

HOYA already holds 90.48% of the total outstanding shares, and 90.83% of the voting rights of
all shareholders, and will consolidate PENTAX’s balance sheet with its interim consolidated
financial accounts for the period ending in March 2008. HOYA will consolidate PENTAX’s
profit and loss statement from the second half ending in March 2008. The figures on the profit
and loss statement for the annual period ending in March 2008 will be significantly higher than
the previous year, because PENTAX will have been consolidated.
HOYA has not yet published the annual business forecast for the current period (ending in March
2008). Instead, HOYA will publish the annual business forecast for the current period which
consolidates PENTAX, in its outline of the financial and business results (brief note on quarterly
closing accounts (Shihanki Kessan Tanshin)) for the third quarter ending in March 2008 (three
months from October 1, 2007 to December 31, 2007), which will be announced in late January
2008.
With regards to the “business impact of the Merger,” because the Merger is an absorption type
merger of a consolidated subsidiary, we believe that the Merger will have minor effects on the
consolidated operating results. We will seek to improve the corporate value by strengthening our
mobility through the Merger.
PENTAX will be dissolved on March 31, 2008 in conjunction with the Merger. No year-end
dividend for the period ending in March 2008 will be paid to PENTAX shareholders.
12-23-2007, 02:52 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Read point three (3) of my message again. From a shareholder's perspective, actual production now would result in a greater loss of money since the entire financial burden would be borne by Pentax shareholders alone. Therefore, many of those shareholders are likely thinking it is better to wait off until after the merger so production costs can be shared by a wider base of shareholders - both the existing Pentax shareholders and the merging Hoya shareholders (less per individual shareholder). At the same time, again from their perspective, profits from the new product will be forthcoming regardless of the release date.
stewart
What do you mean by "the entire financial burden would be borne by Pentax shareholders alone"? Decreasing share prices? Lower dividends?
Anyway, I really doubt Hoya (=shareholders) would delay a much-needed product launch just because of this.
12-23-2007, 04:23 PM   #27
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The basis of your assumption is wrong. Hoya already controls Pentax, they own the shares (Pentax has been delisted in Japan stock exchange), and both the president and the board of directors have changed. So Pentax is not doing anything without Hoya's knowledge or approval.

QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
5. Telephone calls to Pentax have verified that there has been no....
WHAT? You really expected someone would say anything about a new model coming through the phone to anyone who called? Seriously, no one would say or confirm anything until the official press release is out. That's how it works!

Why do you think Ben and Richard have signed those NDA?

Anyways, you may stop analyzing and just sit back for another month. I truly believe that all the leaked info we are seeing is a strategic move by Pentax.
12-23-2007, 05:06 PM   #28
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Here are my 2 cents.

It would be safe (even beneficial) to announce cameras in January. For one, people aren't all that averse to waiting 3 to 4 months if they know something's coming and is made official by a company. Even now, there are people in this forum holding off already on the K10D waiting for what's coming.

Two, it gets people from buying into another manufacturer (either through system switching or totally new buyers). Nikon has done this with the D300, and as a result, Nikon owners didn't feel the need to even consider the 40D.

Three, such an announcement will get forums buzzing, and will generate a positive effect for the system as a whole, since people are assured that the system will have an upgrade path, and some will consider buying entry-level cameras, with plans to upgrade to that new model later on.

In any case, Pentax would help themselves to announce the camera by PMA, since I think Canon and Sony would have something up their sleeves, to negate the general goodwill the D3, D300, and E-3 has generated for their respective makers. Photokina is a much bigger tradeshow, but waiting until then would have resulted in potential buyers moving on to other brands.

Besides, it's just an announcement. Specs can change. Even Hoya wouldn't be that averse to green-lighting it, as long as they're committed to the camera division, which it seems like they are.
12-23-2007, 05:40 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Here are my 2 cents.

It would be safe (even beneficial) to announce cameras in January. For one, people aren't all that averse to waiting 3 to 4 months if they know something's coming and is made official by a company. Even now, there are people in this forum holding off already on the K10D waiting for what's coming.

Two, it gets people from buying into another manufacturer (either through system switching or totally new buyers). Nikon has done this with the D300, and as a result, Nikon owners didn't feel the need to even consider the 40D.

Three, such an announcement will get forums buzzing, and will generate a positive effect for the system as a whole, since people are assured that the system will have an upgrade path, and some will consider buying entry-level cameras, with plans to upgrade to that new model later on.

In any case, Pentax would help themselves to announce the camera by PMA, since I think Canon and Sony would have something up their sleeves, to negate the general goodwill the D3, D300, and E-3 has generated for their respective makers. Photokina is a much bigger tradeshow, but waiting until then would have resulted in potential buyers moving on to other brands.

Besides, it's just an announcement. Specs can change. Even Hoya wouldn't be that averse to green-lighting it, as long as they're committed to the camera division, which it seems like they are.
One should hope that a January 'event' actually means something in the way of delivery, and something different from the bad old days of the early computer era when computer companies would put together a product idea and announce it, and if it got enough 'buzz' on the street to make the marketers think it would be successful---they they would design and make the product.

what makes me hopeful that January news is not an announcement of vaporware is the indication that there ARE people with NDA's (there are no need for NDA's if the marketers in Japan are still sitting in japan reading the threads here trying to decide which features should be included.... the existence of the NDA's and what they have said---i.e. that the have seen, touched and felt something suggests the existence of working prototypes at least and most likely early production models.
12-23-2007, 11:00 PM   #30
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