K20D FPS Rumor

codiac2600 · 12-24-2007, 07:32 PM

Well, I've been doing research and am trying to put pieces together and I keep getting hints about FPS.

This is all speculation by me and nothing I know under NDA will be exposed.

I know there is talk on FPS on the K20D and I may have to add some speculation to the pot. The current rumor is that it'll shoot 3FPS in highest quality (RAW) and under some other circumstance may shoot at a higher rate.

I'm guessing it's going to be a combination of lowering the image quality, maybe Jpeg or sensor crop, but there may be another piece to the puzzle. I now believe that the new and improved battery grip for the K20D will give it the boost needed to perform at a faster pace for much longer.

Pentax has about a half dozen patents on new battery grips and the reason I know they are new because they all contain some sort of buffer. When attached to the camera they all state that the camera in continuous mode will be faster and last longer (higher FPS and more pics in a burst). I'm taking a bold leap of faith in saying Pentax will show us a new camera as well as a new battery grip and that battery grip will be an essential piece of the puzzle for sport shooters and nature lovers.

Just my speculation and I'll be taking bets all week

regken · 12-24-2007, 08:09 PM

By putting a bigger faster buffer in the grip they would not have to increase the cost of the body. The customer that has no need for speed gets to buy a less expensive body. If you need the speed, buy a grip. To elegant a solution to be possible. Makes to much sense to be possible. That sure would be a WOW factor if it could be done. Great out of the box thinking Chris.

BrendanPK · 12-24-2007, 08:21 PM

I can see the flamers now complaigning about I want the FPS but not the bulk. Just MO from readind many others "negative" posts about var Pentax DSLR's.
Personaly I think its a great idea. Keep the body $2-300 cheeper and thoes who wish can pay that extra for the extra features.
must wait though

Chocolar · 12-24-2007, 10:01 PM

That's a pretty d*ng good idea!

little laker · 12-24-2007, 10:51 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if it's another buffer, so your essentially shooting with 2 at once doubling the speed of the camera.
I hope that they increased the battery capacity, otherwise that'll probably be the limiting factor.

sir_bazz · 12-25-2007, 12:44 AM

Isn't the FPS determined by the number of readout channels on the sensor, (Sony CCD's atleast). ?

bazz.

**David** · 12-25-2007, 01:33 AM

Yes, for example the Nikon D200 has a four channel output sensor, two green and one each red and blue to deliver 5FPS. The D80, Alpha 100, K10D and others use the same two channel output sensor which reduces the FPS to 3.

David

ogl · 12-25-2007, 03:37 AM

3 fps in 14 MP + 14 BIT would be GREAT!

Have a look at
D300 in 14 bit mode.

Continuous mode
14-bit RAW
Lossless compressed (2.66 frames/sec);
18 frames total;
17 seconds to clear (14-bit RAW greatly slows the continuous-mode frame rate.)
Time per shot, averaged over 18 shots.

Continuous mode
14-bit RAW
Compressed (2.67 frames/sec);
23 frames total;
19 seconds to clear (In our tests at least, lossy compression helped buffer capacity more in 14-bit mode than in 12-bit. (Oddly, compressed 14-bit capacity was higher than 12-bit.))
Time per shot, averaged over 23 shots.

Continuous mode
14-bit RAW
Uncompressed (2.66 frames/sec);
16 frames total;
24 seconds to clear

Nikon D300 Digital Camera Perform - Initial Test - The Imaging Resource!

Pentaxtic · 12-25-2007, 03:41 AM

Hopefully the buffer/grip can be backwards compatible with the K10D. Would that be possible?

codiac2600 · 12-25-2007, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by Pentaxtic

Hopefully the buffer/grip can be backwards compatible with the K10D. Would that be possible?

It wouldn't because each of those pins on the grip has a reason and if there is something new added to the it needs more pins. I'm guessing no backwards compatibility with the K10D and the new grip for the K20D.

anomaly · 12-25-2007, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by David

Yes, for example the Nikon D200 has a four channel output sensor, two green and one each red and blue to deliver 5FPS. The D80, Alpha 100, K10D and others use the same two channel output sensor which reduces the FPS to 3.

David

Are you sure about this? I thought that the main obstacle was the buffer size and write speed.

Also battery power wouldn't be a problem, you are getting one or two more batteries in the grip!

Now all they have to do is release some weather sealed flash with true RF in them which can get triggered fromt he grip et voila! The perfect grip.

Some may argue that this is not possible because of RF restrictions around the world but this is not true, infact the simplest and most efficient solution to this problem is to make a deal with Pocket Wizard, Radio Popper, Elinchrom or one of the rest to use their trancievers in the grip and in the flashes. This would mean that the tranciever in the grip could be used to trigger any flash with the selected system connected to it AND any other camera could be used to trigger the flashes with one of the selected system's tranciever.

If they do that then we may well get users of other camera brands buying Pentax flashes.

equinox · 12-25-2007, 07:50 AM

For those of us that do not want a grip for better FPS photography would make changing brands much easier. Not that size of the grip really bothers me, I just have no requirements for one and do not want added expense/bulk of one if I do not require it. And to penalize people to buy a grip for better performance is just not very smart in my opinion. I have held off buying lenses/ flash or even another brand until Pentax tells all.

This is just like Oly advertising fastest focus DSLR (In fine print: only with one lens) or Nikon with a fast (D300 ) FPS camera but not in 14 bit mode.

thibs · 12-25-2007, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by anomaly

Are you sure about this? I thought that the main obstacle was the buffer size and write speed.

Yes it has been confirmed numerous time.
- The write to SDCard Speed only influnces the time needed to clean the buffer. Not the Max FPS speed.
- The buffer size influences the number of shots possible before being limited byt the SDCard write speed.

None of those influences the Max FPS speed (except if buffer speed can't cope with the sensor output which would be utterly stupid).

mawz · 12-28-2007, 07:41 PM

Hmm, if that's the case, perhaps a new battery option in the grip? Like with the D300, which is slow in 14bit, but in 12 bit it does 6fps stock and 8fps with the grip and high-voltage battery (EN-EL4 or 8xAA's, the grip can also take an EN-EL3e battery like the body does, but only does 6fps with the lower-voltage EN-EL3e battery).

Extra buffer is also an interesting idea.

But what I'd really like to see in the grip is multiple battery carriers. Give me an AA carrier(for emergencies, or just to let me use all the AA rechargables I acquired when I used the older Pentax bodies), a D-LI50 carrier that also holds an SD card & remote (like the current one) and a 3rd, high-capacity battery (Maybe without a carrier) like the EN-EL4a from Nikon (11.1V and ~2500mAh, good for 2000+ shots per charge on the high-draw bodies like the D3)

12-24-2007, 07:32 PM	#1
codiac2600 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 2,027	K20D FPS Rumor Well, I've been doing research and am trying to put pieces together and I keep getting hints about FPS. This is all speculation by me and nothing I know under NDA will be exposed. I know there is talk on FPS on the K20D and I may have to add some speculation to the pot. The current rumor is that it'll shoot 3FPS in highest quality (RAW) and under some other circumstance may shoot at a higher rate. I'm guessing it's going to be a combination of lowering the image quality, maybe Jpeg or sensor crop, but there may be another piece to the puzzle. I now believe that the new and improved battery grip for the K20D will give it the boost needed to perform at a faster pace for much longer. Pentax has about a half dozen patents on new battery grips and the reason I know they are new because they all contain some sort of buffer. When attached to the camera they all state that the camera in continuous mode will be faster and last longer (higher FPS and more pics in a burst). I'm taking a bold leap of faith in saying Pentax will show us a new camera as well as a new battery grip and that battery grip will be an essential piece of the puzzle for sport shooters and nature lovers. Just my speculation and I'll be taking bets all week

12-24-2007, 08:09 PM	#2
regken Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangor, Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,377	To elegant to be possible By putting a bigger faster buffer in the grip they would not have to increase the cost of the body. The customer that has no need for speed gets to buy a less expensive body. If you need the speed, buy a grip. To elegant a solution to be possible. Makes to much sense to be possible. That sure would be a WOW factor if it could be done. Great out of the box thinking Chris.

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12-24-2007, 08:21 PM	#3
BrendanPK Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 735	I can see the flamers now complaigning about I want the FPS but not the bulk. Just MO from readind many others "negative" posts about var Pentax DSLR's. Personaly I think its a great idea. Keep the body $2-300 cheeper and thoes who wish can pay that extra for the extra features. must wait though

12-24-2007, 10:01 PM	#4
Chocolar Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: OC, California Posts: 147	That's a pretty d*ng good idea!

12-24-2007, 10:51 PM	#5
little laker Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,697	I wouldn't be surprised if it's another buffer, so your essentially shooting with 2 at once doubling the speed of the camera. I hope that they increased the battery capacity, otherwise that'll probably be the limiting factor.

12-25-2007, 12:44 AM	#6
sir_bazz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 184	Isn't the FPS determined by the number of readout channels on the sensor, (Sony CCD's atleast). ? bazz.

12-25-2007, 01:33 AM	#7
David Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sandy Bay, Tasmania, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 347	Yes, for example the Nikon D200 has a four channel output sensor, two green and one each red and blue to deliver 5FPS. The D80, Alpha 100, K10D and others use the same two channel output sensor which reduces the FPS to 3. David

12-25-2007, 03:37 AM	#8
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	3 fps in 14 MP + 14 BIT would be GREAT! Have a look at D300 in 14 bit mode. Continuous mode 14-bit RAW Lossless compressed (2.66 frames/sec); 18 frames total; 17 seconds to clear (14-bit RAW greatly slows the continuous-mode frame rate.) Time per shot, averaged over 18 shots. Continuous mode 14-bit RAW Compressed (2.67 frames/sec); 23 frames total; 19 seconds to clear (In our tests at least, lossy compression helped buffer capacity more in 14-bit mode than in 12-bit. (Oddly, compressed 14-bit capacity was higher than 12-bit.)) Time per shot, averaged over 23 shots. Continuous mode 14-bit RAW Uncompressed (2.66 frames/sec); 16 frames total; 24 seconds to clear Nikon D300 Digital Camera Perform - Initial Test - The Imaging Resource!

12-25-2007, 03:41 AM	#9
Pentaxtic Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver Photos: Gallery Posts: 417	Hopefully the buffer/grip can be backwards compatible with the K10D. Would that be possible?

12-25-2007, 05:57 AM	#10
codiac2600 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 2,027 Original Poster	Originally posted by Pentaxtic Hopefully the buffer/grip can be backwards compatible with the K10D. Would that be possible? It wouldn't because each of those pins on the grip has a reason and if there is something new added to the it needs more pins. I'm guessing no backwards compatibility with the K10D and the new grip for the K20D.

12-25-2007, 07:46 AM	#11
anomaly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Barbados Photos: Gallery Posts: 264	Originally posted by David Yes, for example the Nikon D200 has a four channel output sensor, two green and one each red and blue to deliver 5FPS. The D80, Alpha 100, K10D and others use the same two channel output sensor which reduces the FPS to 3. David Are you sure about this? I thought that the main obstacle was the buffer size and write speed. Also battery power wouldn't be a problem, you are getting one or two more batteries in the grip! Now all they have to do is release some weather sealed flash with true RF in them which can get triggered fromt he grip et voila! The perfect grip. Some may argue that this is not possible because of RF restrictions around the world but this is not true, infact the simplest and most efficient solution to this problem is to make a deal with Pocket Wizard, Radio Popper, Elinchrom or one of the rest to use their trancievers in the grip and in the flashes. This would mean that the tranciever in the grip could be used to trigger any flash with the selected system connected to it AND any other camera could be used to trigger the flashes with one of the selected system's tranciever. If they do that then we may well get users of other camera brands buying Pentax flashes.

12-25-2007, 07:50 AM	#12
equinox Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 159	For those of us that do not want a grip for better FPS photography would make changing brands much easier. Not that size of the grip really bothers me, I just have no requirements for one and do not want added expense/bulk of one if I do not require it. And to penalize people to buy a grip for better performance is just not very smart in my opinion. I have held off buying lenses/ flash or even another brand until Pentax tells all. This is just like Oly advertising fastest focus DSLR (In fine print: only with one lens) or Nikon with a fast (D300 ) FPS camera but not in 14 bit mode.

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12-25-2007, 11:06 AM	#13
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by anomaly Are you sure about this? I thought that the main obstacle was the buffer size and write speed. Yes it has been confirmed numerous time. - The write to SDCard Speed only influnces the time needed to clean the buffer. Not the Max FPS speed. - The buffer size influences the number of shots possible before being limited byt the SDCard write speed. None of those influences the Max FPS speed (except if buffer speed can't cope with the sensor output which would be utterly stupid).

12-28-2007, 07:41 PM	#14
mawz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 166	Hmm, if that's the case, perhaps a new battery option in the grip? Like with the D300, which is slow in 14bit, but in 12 bit it does 6fps stock and 8fps with the grip and high-voltage battery (EN-EL4 or 8xAA's, the grip can also take an EN-EL3e battery like the body does, but only does 6fps with the lower-voltage EN-EL3e battery). Extra buffer is also an interesting idea. But what I'd really like to see in the grip is multiple battery carriers. Give me an AA carrier(for emergencies, or just to let me use all the AA rechargables I acquired when I used the older Pentax bodies), a D-LI50 carrier that also holds an SD card & remote (like the current one) and a 3rd, high-capacity battery (Maybe without a carrier) like the EN-EL4a from Nikon (11.1V and ~2500mAh, good for 2000+ shots per charge on the high-draw bodies like the D3)