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12-30-2007, 02:24 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by sir_bazz Quote
I could live with that if there was an available replacement for my AF-140C.
This is indeed the major problem of present Pentax flash system.
I expect them to remedy this ASAP. Hope the upcoming roadmap will sport one.

12-30-2007, 02:38 AM   #92
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sorry, couldn't help stealing this from that 'other forum':



What do you think? Looks very convincing to me

Last edited by Buddha Jones; 12-31-2007 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Fixed for wide images
12-30-2007, 02:49 AM   #93
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Looking at it again makes me think about a weather sealed 645D... what'd be the market for that ?
12-30-2007, 02:53 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
What do you think? Looks very convincing to me
Hmmm.... am I missing the joke or something? This is the official picture of the 645D prototype in 2006. It's a real photo, not a photoshop creation.

12-30-2007, 03:29 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Ah so a flash system which
  • needs space in the mirror box
  • So, what's the problem then?

    QuoteQuote:
  • needs special metering system (not the available light metering system)
Every auto flash metering system is an individual one just because the working principle of flash exposure is different from ambient light.

QuoteQuote:
  • is reliable only at 200 and 400 ISO but not any other ISO value
  • As I have asked you, do you need to use ISO 800 or 1600 when you have a flash??

    QuoteQuote:
    is something you would want to maintain?
    Yes, when there is an old system which works accurately, consistently, predictable and compatible with old Pentax flash units, who do not want to have this???
    12-30-2007, 03:33 AM   #96
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    QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
    As I have asked you, do you need to use ISO 800 or 1600 when you have a flash??
    Yes, when I need the flash range or when I need to balance the ambient light.

    QuoteQuote:
    Yes, when there is an old system which works accurately, consistently, predictable and compatible with old Pentax flash units, who do not want to have this???
    Because it can't do High Speed Sync and Multiple Wireless TTL flash.
    12-30-2007, 03:34 AM   #97
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    QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
    As I said, this feature may be important to the 0.01% of the market, and most of them are in this forum or dpreview

    It is not marketable in the sense that it would not affect the sales figures at all.
    When you yourself do not need something, you cannot say there is just 0.01% Pentax users will need it. Just start a poll it and let's bet if people who want Pentax TTL auto back will exceed 0.01%!

    QuoteQuote:
    No, the old TTL system cannot do the job of a modern flash system.

    The market demands these from a modern flash system:
    - High Speed Sync
    Utter nonsense! Olympus has this in early 80s!

    QuoteQuote:
    - Multiple Wireless TTL Flash
    How come wireless control is related to metering method??

    QuoteQuote:
    - Matrix metering
    Canon and Nikon has these for OTF TTL flash sensor in the early 90s!

    QuoteQuote:
    Especially the first two features are a must have for a modern flash system. And this is the exact reason why we need P-TTL.

    And it simply does not make economic sense to have two duplicate flash systems.
    Your imaginations are not substantiated. But the only valid point I have to agree is Pentax want to cut manufacturing cost (and want us to buy new flash guns as well).
    12-30-2007, 03:36 AM   #98
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    QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
    Have you considered those LED Macro ring lights?
    Why not just use a super light LED torchlight to lit up the object? I have one myself and thanks for telling me that I can do this for my macro photog!

    12-30-2007, 03:54 AM   #99
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    QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
    Your imaginations are not substantiated. But the only valid point I have to agree is Pentax want to cut manufacturing cost (and want us to buy new flash guns as well).
    Well, it's your imagination which is not substantiated. Can you name me one other major manufacturer which still uses the same old TTL technology? Obviously, there are many possible solution for high speed sync and multiple wireless TTL flash, but P-TTL (as in all other pre-flash systems currently chosen) is the most cost effective way.
    12-30-2007, 05:23 AM   #100
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    QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
    Well, it's your imagination which is not substantiated. Can you name me one other major manufacturer which still uses the same old TTL technology? Obviously, there are many possible solution for high speed sync and multiple wireless TTL flash, but P-TTL (as in all other pre-flash systems currently chosen) is the most cost effective way.
    I know that you will not accept the simple *fact* that advanced flash features like high speed sync and wireless control are totally not related to the flash exposure metering method. Just because you want to argue for the sake of argument.

    Why not respond to the true examples I have given you, i.e., Olympus has high speed sync TTL flash nearly 3 decades ago. Nikon and Canon had multi-segment Off The Film flash matrix metering nearly 2 decades ago. As for wireless control, it is just like remote controller of any electrical appliances, how come you have to relate this to the P-TTL? At least Minolta has wireless TTL auto flash also in the 90s.
    12-30-2007, 09:29 AM   #101
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    QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
    Hmmm.... am I missing the joke or something? This is the official picture of the 645D prototype in 2006. It's a real photo, not a photoshop creation.
    You are. Sorry about that, I'm not a native english speaker so my words sound different than expected... basically it's about the "K20D" actually being the 645D. Doesn't sound funny this way :]
    12-30-2007, 09:47 AM   #102
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    12-30-2007, 10:28 AM   #103
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    QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
    Why not respond to the true examples I have given you, i.e., Olympus has high speed sync TTL flash nearly 3 decades ago.
    Why not respond to the true example I have given you - why did Oly abandon this idea in their DSLRs if it did work so well? Why did ALL other manufacturers abandon the tradition TTL?

    I cannot answer your Oly's Super FP sync question as I do not have any detail about it. For example, did Oly Super FP allows TTL metering? It did have OTF TTL, but in using Super FP high speed sync, does it have TTL metering as well or did it revert to manual fixed output?

    The key to High Speed Sync as implemented in P-TTL is that it can have TTL metering at the same time; you can even have multiple wireless high speed sync TTL.

    QuoteQuote:
    Nikon and Canon had multi-segment Off The Film flash matrix metering nearly 2 decades ago.
    Sure, and both have abandoned the systems, even and particularly in their most expensive bodies.

    QuoteQuote:
    As for wireless control, it is just like remote controller of any electrical appliances, how come you have to relate this to the P-TTL? At least Minolta has wireless TTL auto flash also in the 90s.
    Because this is the most efficient way for TTL metering for multiple wireless situations.

    And don't insist on that it is my imagination. I have all the manufacturers agreeing with me. Do you?
    12-30-2007, 10:59 AM   #104
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    Anyone think it's likely Pentax upgraded the electronics so it can now take 3.6V Li-ion RCR3V's? Wouldn't that be a very nice compromise:

    - Higher voltage, better AF performance (true right?)
    - Li-ion keeps it's charge
    - Still can use plain AA in case of an emergency.
    12-30-2007, 11:25 AM   #105
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    QuoteOriginally posted by CSpronken Quote
    Anyone think it's likely Pentax upgraded the electronics so it can now take 3.6V Li-ion RCR3V's? Wouldn't that be a very nice compromise:

    - Higher voltage, better AF performance (true right?)
    - Li-ion keeps it's charge
    - Still can use plain AA in case of an emergency.
    In fact nobody knows if the camera will still accept CRV3. It seems to me in previous cameras that it was written on it clearly that it accepted both CRV3 and AAs.

    On the pictures of the K200d, there are only AA marked on it.
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