Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-30-2007, 12:16 PM   #106
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 159
[QUOTE=nosnoop;142237]Why not respond to the true example I have given you - why did Oly abandon this idea in their DSLRs if it did work so well? Why did ALL other manufacturers abandon the tradition TTL?

nosnoop, I learned long ago to just ignore those that do not know what they are talking about. Dont know what your arguement with the local troll is all about as I have the PentaxForums troll block on.



12-30-2007, 02:06 PM   #107
Veteran Member
benjikan's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Paris, France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,308
[QUOTE=equinox;142308]
QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Why not respond to the true example I have given you - why did Oly abandon this idea in their DSLRs if it did work so well? Why did ALL other manufacturers abandon the tradition TTL?

nosnoop, I learned long ago to just ignore those that do not know what they are talking about. Dont know what your arguement with the local troll is all about as I have the PentaxForums troll block on.


That MAKES ME A TROLL....YIKES!!!
12-30-2007, 03:19 PM   #108
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 159
[QUOTE=benjikan;142349]
QuoteOriginally posted by equinox Quote

That MAKES ME A TROLL....YIKES!!!
Hardy Har Har....

First: your nose is not long enough.

Second: you probably drink fine French at gatherings. (Trolls drink Broth of Pondwater)

Third: you actually take pictures with your camera instead of measuring how to make it fail or worry about shiny buttons getting scratches sillyness.

And last but not least, you do not have a TDA. (Troll Disclosure Agreement)

That is all......
12-31-2007, 09:57 AM   #109
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,934
QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Why not respond to the true example I have given you - why did Oly abandon this idea in their DSLRs if it did work so well? Why did ALL other manufacturers abandon the tradition TTL?

I cannot answer your Oly's Super FP sync question as I do not have any detail about it. For example, did Oly Super FP allows TTL metering? It did have OTF TTL, but in using Super FP high speed sync, does it have TTL metering as well or did it revert to manual fixed output?

The key to High Speed Sync as implemented in P-TTL is that it can have TTL metering at the same time; you can even have multiple wireless high speed sync TTL.

Sure, and both have abandoned the systems, even and particularly in their most expensive bodies.

Because this is the most efficient way for TTL metering for multiple wireless situations.

And don't insist on that it is my imagination. I have all the manufacturers agreeing with me. Do you?
Oly high speed sync is TTL auto capable.

In fact, your logics are all incorrect from the beginning, that is, flash metering has NOTHING to do with other flash features like high speed sync or wireless control etc., as I have repeatedly told you for times. You've just mixed things up illogically.

You should know about the working principles for each of the features you stated plus how a flash is actually working for the metering and exposure control. Here is an old article of mine to explain all these, you should understand all these before going to argue further:-

P-TTL Vs TTL

Afterall, it is not all manufacturers support your supposition, it is just that they have taken a new approach to build camera system, just like Pentax and Nikon both have deleted the aperture ring in their latest lenses. But actually even they keep the aperture ring, they can yet make an automatic lens! Now that your logic for your argument is simply that "just because the latest lenses don't have the aperture ring, if they keep the aperture ring, they cannot make automatic lenses", which is exactly like this! See it now?


Last edited by RiceHigh; 12-31-2007 at 10:03 AM.
12-31-2007, 10:12 AM   #110
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
Then you can use plain TTL with wireless control, right?
Please say yes. That will prove once again how much do you understand your own "articles".
12-31-2007, 11:15 AM   #111
Veteran Member
mattdm's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,948
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Then you can use plain TTL with wireless control, right?
It certainly could be made to work.

It would have to either use radio communication or use a flashed signal to communicate metering information, the latter of which having the drawback of a visible preflash just like PTTL.
12-31-2007, 12:15 PM   #112
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
Radio signal would be my choice, for the flashed signal you will need another flash emitter (as the wireless master would be busy with the main flash), or limit the on-camera flash to wireless controller-mode only. Not that you don't already know this.
I'm not sure however how difficult would be - e.g. the wireless communication can be made fast enough? It's just a feeling, but I think this "solution" is both expensive and difficult (if not impossible) to implement.

12-31-2007, 12:38 PM   #113
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Binghamton, NY, USA
Posts: 643
kunzite, read into Minolta's wireless TTL flash capabilities. it was an OTF TTL metering system, that they discontinued once they went digital, because the OTF functions were not exposing properly because of the differences between film and sensor. otherwise, it was a VERY advanced wireless system.
12-31-2007, 12:48 PM   #114
Veteran Member
Rickster's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SE Idaho - Rocky Mtns
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 580
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Radio signal would be my choice, for the flashed signal you will need another flash emitter (as the wireless master would be busy with the main flash), or limit the on-camera flash to wireless controller-mode only. Not that you don't already know this.
I'm not sure however how difficult would be - e.g. the wireless communication can be made fast enough? It's just a feeling, but I think this "solution" is both expensive and difficult (if not impossible) to implement.
One big issue with RF control is all the different approvals you have to get from each country you sell in. Can be a nightmare.

cheers,
Rick
Retired E.E.
12-31-2007, 01:09 PM   #115
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
OK, my bad. So it is possible, and it was implemented before. In fact, the same flash can be used as wireless master (if it wasn't fired at full-power, I guess).
12-31-2007, 03:57 PM   #116
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,299
QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
In fact, your logics are all incorrect from the beginning, that is, flash metering has NOTHING to do with other flash features like high speed sync or wireless control etc., as I have repeatedly told you for times. You've just mixed things up illogically.
No, I fully understand all the flash systems, and my logic is sound. All the advanced flash features such a high speed sync and multiple wireless flash require a TTL metering system - and pre-flash (P-TTL) metering is the most efficient way to doing this. Without this efficient way of having TTL metering with the advanced flash feature, you won't see them implemented in all the bodies including entry ones.

QuoteQuote:
Afterall, it is not all manufacturers support your supposition, it is just that they have taken a new approach to build camera system, just like Pentax and Nikon both have deleted the aperture ring in their latest lenses.
Exactly - just think a minute and why have they adopted this approach? Why did Oly abandon their OTF TTL metering? Why has all the manufacturers decide on the same type of system? As I said, that's because it is the most efficient way of implementing flash TTL metering for all the advanced flash feature. There may be alternatives, but if they require complex circuitry or high cost to work with traditional TTL (e.g. radio trigger as other suggested), you simply won't see them implemented other than the top end body.

QuoteQuote:
But actually even they keep the aperture ring, they can yet make an automatic lens! Now that your logic for your argument is simply that "just because the latest lenses don't have the aperture ring, if they keep the aperture ring, they cannot make automatic lenses", which is exactly like this! See it now?
Aperture ring is not exactly the same. Though the main similarity to my logic is the redundancy as aperture can be controlled electronically; just like traditional TTL is a redundant system in a camera with P-TTL. Other than the extra expense of the mechanical aperture ring, it is also one of the main support issue when people forgot after they moved it off the "A" position.
12-31-2007, 04:29 PM   #117
Veteran Member
Fl_Gulfer's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Florida Gulfer
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,054
Maybe the little green button has something to do with the new Live View feature.
12-31-2007, 04:44 PM   #118
mlt
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,158
K200D First Images - ???

Has anyone else noticed this in the pictures - does the add-on grip really have the screw connector on the bottom as the pictures indicate? This would have the screw going right through the center of the battery compartment of the grip. The K10 (Bg-2) grip placement of the screw know makes a lot more sense and wouldn't have been that difficult to fix in PS
12-31-2007, 05:13 PM   #119
Veteran Member
Mike Cash's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Japan
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,950
QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
sorry, couldn't help stealing this from that 'other forum':



What do you think? Looks very convincing to me
In the future, please use the "imgwide" tags instead of "img" tags for wide images. I had to horizontally scroll back and forth to read the rest of the page you posted this on.
12-31-2007, 06:53 PM   #120
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,934
QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
kunzite, read into Minolta's wireless TTL flash capabilities. it was an OTF TTL metering system, that they discontinued once they went digital, because the OTF functions were not exposing properly because of the differences between film and sensor. otherwise, it was a VERY advanced wireless system.
Wrong! The PENTAX *ist D does not have that problem you guys always mention! The *ist D has BOTH the OTF TTL support and P-TTL. But then it is just the P-TTL sucks, not the good old reliable TTL!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
k200d, k20d, pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A variety of images with FA* 200/4 Macro (no bugs) - VLF competition images Marc Langille Post Your Photos! 28 08-22-2008 07:28 PM
K200D Burst of RAW images? ogl Pentax News and Rumors 6 03-12-2008 10:59 AM
K200D Burst of RAW images? ogl Pentax DSLR Discussion 1 03-10-2008 04:23 PM
Pentax K200D - images out in the wild USCdeacon Pentax DSLR Discussion 8 01-02-2008 09:11 PM
High ISO concert images with Tam 28-300 (Images) jsundin Post Your Photos! 2 07-05-2007 08:19 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:39 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top