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12-30-2007, 12:16 PM   #106
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[QUOTE=nosnoop;142237]Why not respond to the true example I have given you - why did Oly abandon this idea in their DSLRs if it did work so well? Why did ALL other manufacturers abandon the tradition TTL?

nosnoop, I learned long ago to just ignore those that do not know what they are talking about. Dont know what your arguement with the local troll is all about as I have the PentaxForums troll block on.



12-30-2007, 02:06 PM   #107
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[QUOTE=equinox;142308]
QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Why not respond to the true example I have given you - why did Oly abandon this idea in their DSLRs if it did work so well? Why did ALL other manufacturers abandon the tradition TTL?

nosnoop, I learned long ago to just ignore those that do not know what they are talking about. Dont know what your arguement with the local troll is all about as I have the PentaxForums troll block on.


That MAKES ME A TROLL....YIKES!!!
12-30-2007, 03:19 PM   #108
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[QUOTE=benjikan;142349]
QuoteOriginally posted by equinox Quote

That MAKES ME A TROLL....YIKES!!!
Hardy Har Har....

First: your nose is not long enough.

Second: you probably drink fine French at gatherings. (Trolls drink Broth of Pondwater)

Third: you actually take pictures with your camera instead of measuring how to make it fail or worry about shiny buttons getting scratches sillyness.

And last but not least, you do not have a TDA. (Troll Disclosure Agreement)

That is all......
12-31-2007, 09:57 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Why not respond to the true example I have given you - why did Oly abandon this idea in their DSLRs if it did work so well? Why did ALL other manufacturers abandon the tradition TTL?

I cannot answer your Oly's Super FP sync question as I do not have any detail about it. For example, did Oly Super FP allows TTL metering? It did have OTF TTL, but in using Super FP high speed sync, does it have TTL metering as well or did it revert to manual fixed output?

The key to High Speed Sync as implemented in P-TTL is that it can have TTL metering at the same time; you can even have multiple wireless high speed sync TTL.

Sure, and both have abandoned the systems, even and particularly in their most expensive bodies.

Because this is the most efficient way for TTL metering for multiple wireless situations.

And don't insist on that it is my imagination. I have all the manufacturers agreeing with me. Do you?
Oly high speed sync is TTL auto capable.

In fact, your logics are all incorrect from the beginning, that is, flash metering has NOTHING to do with other flash features like high speed sync or wireless control etc., as I have repeatedly told you for times. You've just mixed things up illogically.

You should know about the working principles for each of the features you stated plus how a flash is actually working for the metering and exposure control. Here is an old article of mine to explain all these, you should understand all these before going to argue further:-

P-TTL Vs TTL

Afterall, it is not all manufacturers support your supposition, it is just that they have taken a new approach to build camera system, just like Pentax and Nikon both have deleted the aperture ring in their latest lenses. But actually even they keep the aperture ring, they can yet make an automatic lens! Now that your logic for your argument is simply that "just because the latest lenses don't have the aperture ring, if they keep the aperture ring, they cannot make automatic lenses", which is exactly like this! See it now?


Last edited by RiceHigh; 12-31-2007 at 10:03 AM.
12-31-2007, 10:12 AM   #110
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Then you can use plain TTL with wireless control, right?
Please say yes. That will prove once again how much do you understand your own "articles".
12-31-2007, 11:15 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Then you can use plain TTL with wireless control, right?
It certainly could be made to work.

It would have to either use radio communication or use a flashed signal to communicate metering information, the latter of which having the drawback of a visible preflash just like PTTL.
12-31-2007, 12:15 PM   #112
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Radio signal would be my choice, for the flashed signal you will need another flash emitter (as the wireless master would be busy with the main flash), or limit the on-camera flash to wireless controller-mode only. Not that you don't already know this.
I'm not sure however how difficult would be - e.g. the wireless communication can be made fast enough? It's just a feeling, but I think this "solution" is both expensive and difficult (if not impossible) to implement.
12-31-2007, 12:38 PM   #113
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kunzite, read into Minolta's wireless TTL flash capabilities. it was an OTF TTL metering system, that they discontinued once they went digital, because the OTF functions were not exposing properly because of the differences between film and sensor. otherwise, it was a VERY advanced wireless system.

12-31-2007, 12:48 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Radio signal would be my choice, for the flashed signal you will need another flash emitter (as the wireless master would be busy with the main flash), or limit the on-camera flash to wireless controller-mode only. Not that you don't already know this.
I'm not sure however how difficult would be - e.g. the wireless communication can be made fast enough? It's just a feeling, but I think this "solution" is both expensive and difficult (if not impossible) to implement.
One big issue with RF control is all the different approvals you have to get from each country you sell in. Can be a nightmare.

cheers,
Rick
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12-31-2007, 01:09 PM   #115
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OK, my bad. So it is possible, and it was implemented before. In fact, the same flash can be used as wireless master (if it wasn't fired at full-power, I guess).
12-31-2007, 03:57 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
In fact, your logics are all incorrect from the beginning, that is, flash metering has NOTHING to do with other flash features like high speed sync or wireless control etc., as I have repeatedly told you for times. You've just mixed things up illogically.
No, I fully understand all the flash systems, and my logic is sound. All the advanced flash features such a high speed sync and multiple wireless flash require a TTL metering system - and pre-flash (P-TTL) metering is the most efficient way to doing this. Without this efficient way of having TTL metering with the advanced flash feature, you won't see them implemented in all the bodies including entry ones.

QuoteQuote:
Afterall, it is not all manufacturers support your supposition, it is just that they have taken a new approach to build camera system, just like Pentax and Nikon both have deleted the aperture ring in their latest lenses.
Exactly - just think a minute and why have they adopted this approach? Why did Oly abandon their OTF TTL metering? Why has all the manufacturers decide on the same type of system? As I said, that's because it is the most efficient way of implementing flash TTL metering for all the advanced flash feature. There may be alternatives, but if they require complex circuitry or high cost to work with traditional TTL (e.g. radio trigger as other suggested), you simply won't see them implemented other than the top end body.

QuoteQuote:
But actually even they keep the aperture ring, they can yet make an automatic lens! Now that your logic for your argument is simply that "just because the latest lenses don't have the aperture ring, if they keep the aperture ring, they cannot make automatic lenses", which is exactly like this! See it now?
Aperture ring is not exactly the same. Though the main similarity to my logic is the redundancy as aperture can be controlled electronically; just like traditional TTL is a redundant system in a camera with P-TTL. Other than the extra expense of the mechanical aperture ring, it is also one of the main support issue when people forgot after they moved it off the "A" position.
12-31-2007, 04:29 PM   #117
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Maybe the little green button has something to do with the new Live View feature.
12-31-2007, 04:44 PM   #118
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K200D First Images - ???

Has anyone else noticed this in the pictures - does the add-on grip really have the screw connector on the bottom as the pictures indicate? This would have the screw going right through the center of the battery compartment of the grip. The K10 (Bg-2) grip placement of the screw know makes a lot more sense and wouldn't have been that difficult to fix in PS
12-31-2007, 05:13 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
sorry, couldn't help stealing this from that 'other forum':



What do you think? Looks very convincing to me
In the future, please use the "imgwide" tags instead of "img" tags for wide images. I had to horizontally scroll back and forth to read the rest of the page you posted this on.
12-31-2007, 06:53 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
kunzite, read into Minolta's wireless TTL flash capabilities. it was an OTF TTL metering system, that they discontinued once they went digital, because the OTF functions were not exposing properly because of the differences between film and sensor. otherwise, it was a VERY advanced wireless system.
Wrong! The PENTAX *ist D does not have that problem you guys always mention! The *ist D has BOTH the OTF TTL support and P-TTL. But then it is just the P-TTL sucks, not the good old reliable TTL!
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