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01-19-2012, 09:26 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
The prices for the FA50/1.4 are not what I would call "very reasonable" particularly for a newcomer or someone switching from Nikon or Canon. As KungPOW said, Nikon has the following in the low cost category:
35mm af-s f/1.8G
40mm af-s f/2.8G Micro
50mm af-s f/1.8G
85mm af-s f1.8G

Pentax offers 1 lens in that category in the "low cost" range of less than $200 the very nice 35/2.4.
Are the Nikon low cost primes any better than good zooms ? The Nikon lenses above are all f1.8 lenses, whereas Nikon's 50 f1.4 lens is virtually the same price as the FA 50 and all their other f1.4 prime lenses are listed as US$1,700 - 2,200.

If a shooter was trying to step up from a zoom I don't think the FA 50 price is unreasonable and f1.4 lenses offer something not available in a zoom, if cost is such an issue then try a legacy lens for a few dollars first, the beauty of Pentax. Nikon shooters would surely have tried their f1.8 primes and if enjoy shooting with them then a f1.4 is the next obvious step up.

01-19-2012, 09:28 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I can't see that it would make any sense for Pentax to try to emulate Nikon. This would simply destroy sales of the regular DA limited lenses without supplying a significant slice of new income since the market is so small. Perhaps Pentax need to take a stand on the kind of company they are and where they would like to be. Actually, if Pentax did that then many of the posts on this and other forums would be redundant because folks would no longer have to speculate and guess in the absence of any guidance from Japan. It's even possible that it is this more than anything else which is costing Pentax lost income in the West because, generally, Westerners expect much more communication and involvement from those who supply their high-tech, high-end products. If Pentax genuinely don't want to do this then fine, it is their decision, but it might be better for everyone if they withdrew from Western markets.

An example is the firmware download pages for Nikon which are detailed and supply changelogs and advice, contrasted with those from Pentax which don't and which sometimes aren't even easy to find. Since it is hardly a big deal to post this stuff on a well-designed website one has to assume that Pentax have chosen not to. Which, alas, is just the kind of thing that sends Westerners into arms of companies which do.

My own wish is that Pentax don't make plastic fantastics on the grounds that if you cannot afford the regular Pentax lenses then it is not the right marque for you. Otherwise, it is all rather like asking Ferrari to make a special range of Ferraris with plywood bodies and Hyundai engines for those who cannot afford a real Ferrari. The rest of us just buy a serviceable old banger and get on with it.
Interesting perspective. From your point-of-view I should give away my Pentax equipment, or better yet just destroy it, because I don't buy Limited lenses........
01-19-2012, 02:14 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
The prices for the FA50/1.4 are not what I would call "very reasonable" particularly for a newcomer or someone switching from Nikon or Canon. As KungPOW said, Nikon has the following in the low cost category:
35mm af-s f/1.8G
40mm af-s f/2.8G Micro
50mm af-s f/1.8G
85mm af-s f1.8G

Pentax offers 1 lens in that category in the "low cost" range of less than $200 the very nice 35/2.4.
compare the fa 50 1.4 to the competing canon and nikon lenses this is a strawman argument. (bot of which sell for about the same price as the FA 50 1.4


I agree a reintroduction of a low cost plasticized f 501.8 maybe with a limited da image circle for $200 makes sense but I also realise that under hoya there would be no expansion of manufacturing lines it was all about cost rationalization to maximize value so they could dump the division they didn't want. they managed to lose half the market share from k10 days but make it profitable enough to be appealing. they probably also dealt with a lot of structural messes which will free up Ricoh's investment to be more productive. but in reality anything coming to market right now has limited ricoh input. the K-01 rumour smack of a hoya design


i think by Photokina (11 months after taking over) we will see more serious examples of the Ricoh influence, and I expect if they are playing the long game it will take 2 years before it really heats up with measured steps towards a goal. what the goal is meh i don't know but i would speculate market share growth at the expense of Canon and Nikon (which I believe is Fuji's goal as well)
01-19-2012, 09:08 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Pentax offers 1 lens in that category in the "low cost" range of less than $200 the very nice 35/2.4.
And Nikon essentially offers two. The 40 macro is $280 and the new 85mm will be around $500. And many of the slower, less expensive Nikon primes ($400 or less) won't even auto-focus on entry level DSLRs. Meanwhile, Canon, the market leader, has only one cheap prime!

Again, it would make sense for Pentax to come out with a cheap fast fifty, since that's the one cheap prime (besides the 35mm) that seems to sell. Other focal ranges will cost more than $200 and probably won't sell enough to make it worth while.

01-25-2012, 04:20 AM   #80
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The G versions address the "won't AF" on lower end bodies problem. I didn't think it was a good idea myself Nikon ripping out the AF motor on lower end bodies. But with the G range in place (and fairly well priced) it solves that problem quite nicely for them.
The 85mm is worthwhile as it's fast and it is quite popular among Canon and NIkon users.

The big gap for Pentax is the cheap 50mm f1.8 they don't have one. With Nikon you have 2 the D version which is good and cheap (if you have an in body AF motor) the new G one is a big seller too, many Nikon usrs I know get both the 50mm and the 35mm f1.8 G which is another big seller.

And the bundle is a lot better with Nikon too you get a metal mount and a hood/bag etc with the 35mm f2.4 you get a slower lens with a cheap plastic mount.
Let's not beat around the bush Nikon have a pretty damn good lens range and if you are a new buyer and wanted to bag some decently priced lenses you wouldn 't even look twice at Pentax
01-25-2012, 04:47 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
And the bundle is a lot better with Nikon too you get a metal mount and a hood/bag etc with the 35mm f2.4 you get a slower lens with a cheap plastic mount.
You make it look like the 35/f2.4 is a bad deal. It isn't, it's a great performer, and the plastic construction at least makes it significantly lighter than the Nikon. But I have to admit that I like that most Pentax lenses come with a bag and a hood (the latter is not the norm at all across brands).
01-25-2012, 09:46 AM   #82
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I didn't say it was a "bad deal" it's not a bad price but why f2.4? I mean huh? I have tried the lens it's a decent one good optics but it's feels very cheap (as in Canon plastic 50mm f1.8 cheap)
Some folks like a cheap 50mm for portraits too and we've nothing to offer them K mount
01-25-2012, 11:28 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
compare the fa 50 1.4 to the competing canon and nikon lenses this is a strawman argument. (bot of which sell for about the same price as the FA 50 1.4


I agree a reintroduction of a low cost plasticized f 501.8 maybe with a limited da image circle for $200 makes sense but I also realise that under hoya there would be no expansion of manufacturing lines it was all about cost rationalization to maximize value so they could dump the division they didn't want. they managed to lose half the market share from k10 days but make it profitable enough to be appealing. they probably also dealt with a lot of structural messes which will free up Ricoh's investment to be more productive. but in reality anything coming to market right now has limited ricoh input. the K-01 rumour smack of a hoya design


i think by Photokina (11 months after taking over) we will see more serious examples of the Ricoh influence, and I expect if they are playing the long game it will take 2 years before it really heats up with measured steps towards a goal. what the goal is meh i don't know but i would speculate market share growth at the expense of Canon and Nikon (which I believe is Fuji's goal as well)
It's not a strawman argument but its not worth pursuing at this point.

As for timelines, I do agree with you that 12-24 months is more realistic to see Ricoh's hand in any actual output from Pentax.

02-23-2012, 12:08 PM   #84
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Jonathan Martin is a bit of a fool really sorry it has to be said.
02-23-2012, 08:19 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
Jonathan Martin is a bit of a fool really sorry it has to be said.
Better a bit of a fool than a complete fool.
02-23-2012, 10:02 PM   #86
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Pentax offers FOUR lenses in focal range 30-35 mm -
for any taste - FA31/1.8, FA35/2, DA35/2.4, DA35/2.8 macro and it will be FOUR lenses in range 50-55 mm - DA50/1.8, FA50/1.4, DA*55/1.4, FA50/2.8 macro.

The situation is worse in 20-30 mm focal lenght. Only DA21/3.2.
I hope for new DA20-40 LIMITED ZOOM. I hope for f/2.8.
And for new secret prime.

As for 85/1.4 - I don't see any necessity to develop such lens for APS-C.
DA70/2.4 and FA77/1.8 are enough IMO. I hope for something like 90/2.8 pancake LIMITED. Or even for DA-L85/2.
Not for expensive DA*85/1.4.

Last edited by ogl; 02-23-2012 at 10:08 PM.
02-24-2012, 02:46 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Better a bit of a fool than a complete fool.
I hate to say this but I met him once at a trade show. The guy is clueless about cameras can barely remove a lens cap.
I found it disturbing such a man was in charge of a company to say the least.
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