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01-17-2012, 04:20 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
Ah, the song of the fanboy.

Yep, no other camera maker has ever released a roadmap or a prototype.

Oh wait, yes they have. They do it all the time in fact. And we've been being fed this particular rumor wrapped in different paper for a couple of years now, and it's never come to pass.

So no one said the sky is falling, simply that I don't believe Pentax has any great new products in pipeline, and I've seen zero evidence other than hopes and dreams to disabuse me of that notion. Not seen any dispute of the fact that they are now a company with ONE DSLR currently in production.

But the sarcasm tipped me over the edge and I believe in the Pentax Way again . Of course any pragmatism about Mother Church/Pentax is heresy. So never mind me, back to the squabbling about how great the Q is and the wonderful new FF cameras (and oh the lenses!) that I'm now convinced will be announced very shortly at some indeterminate time in the future, after a little more discussion.

Maybe.
Ouch, this ought to be sarcasm, huh? I'm afraid it missed... well, you probably know.
I'm sorry but this style of "argueing" (not to call it whining) is not reasonable, but pathetic.
Do you know how production cycle of cameras work? Can you show me the future roadmaps of the other companies? How long did it take Sony after CoMi to bring out products? Was it almost a year? Why do you attack people that don't swallow your FUD? Why do you care at all for this company?
Ok, right, rhetorical questions, why bother at all...
Cheers

01-17-2012, 04:40 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Ouch, this ought to be sarcasm, huh? I'm afraid it missed... well, you probably know.
I'm sorry but this style of "argueing" (not to call it whining) is not reasonable, but pathetic.
Do you know how production cycle of cameras work? Can you show me the future roadmaps of the other companies? How long did it take Sony after CoMi to bring out products? Was it almost a year? Why do you attack people that don't swallow your FUD? Why do you care at all for this company?
Ok, right, rhetorical questions, why bother at all...
Cheers
Samsung lens roadmap

Official Fuji statement on the X system roadmap

Nikon's annually 'leaked' roadmap

Yeah expecting a company that ostensibly wants my money to communicate is pathetic. See I wasn't aware as a customer it was my job to "care" for the company. I thought it was their job to keep me happy with the value of my investment in their products and to look forward to future ones. So that's what other companies have been doing wrong and why Pentax dominates the market.
01-17-2012, 04:53 PM   #33
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Did you actually read these? Just rumors and in the case of the Nikon one -- totally fictional satire. NOT convincing.
01-17-2012, 04:54 PM   #34
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first off 2 dslrs as the 645D is AFAIK still being made (which you've ignored in both posts BTW
Second 3 months from the takeover is very little time to impact any production plans.
Nikon also has had virtually nothing new either nor a DSLR roadmap but apparently that is OK
I agree it is frustrating if you are looking to buy right now, but unless you are in the market for an entry level body you just buy the K5 and move on, it's a good camera. If it's lenses well they are still there to buy
Do I expect the world to show up on a platter 3 months into a merged company nope.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a CP+ announcement (or even a world Pentax day one since major announcements by anyone are less tied to shows now)
If the roadmap is not final why show it.
Prototypes are rare at electronics shows (and frequently don't even make it to production) but apparently there was a mystery one at the Pentax booth at CES (likely to show staff and senior buyers for chains/big retailers) - If anything I see it as possibly the next announcement (probably the long rumoured second apsc mirrorless)

IF you can't wait and have to have something new then buy into another system and keep or sell off the Pentax gear. It is after all just a means to an end, the photo is not the product of the camera but the person using it. a new camera won't instantly make you a better photographer.

01-17-2012, 04:57 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Did you actually read these? Just rumors and in the case of the Nikon one -- totally fictional satire. NOT convincing.
hahaha the nikon link cracked me up, you could substitute Pentax everywhere it says Nikon

QuoteQuote:
Nikon, judging from the tone of these secretly leaked emails, is very confident that the prosumer photographer population will continue to:
- be unhappy with their current camera gear
- complain about new models not arriving soon enough
- threaten to switch from Nikon to another camera brand
- remain still unhappy with their next purchase
- stay as a loyal Nikon customer for life
01-17-2012, 05:00 PM - 1 Like   #36
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Round 1236: FIGHT!
01-17-2012, 05:46 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
first off 2 dslrs as the 645D is AFAIK still being made (which you've ignored in both posts BTW
Second 3 months from the takeover is very little time to impact any production plans.
Nikon also has had virtually nothing new either nor a DSLR roadmap but apparently that is OK
I agree it is frustrating if you are looking to buy right now, but unless you are in the market for an entry level body you just buy the K5 and move on, it's a good camera. If it's lenses well they are still there to buy
Do I expect the world to show up on a platter 3 months into a merged company nope.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a CP+ announcement (or even a world Pentax day one since major announcements by anyone are less tied to shows now)
If the roadmap is not final why show it.
Prototypes are rare at electronics shows (and frequently don't even make it to production) but apparently there was a mystery one at the Pentax booth at CES (likely to show staff and senior buyers for chains/big retailers) - If anything I see it as possibly the next announcement (probably the long rumoured second apsc mirrorless)

IF you can't wait and have to have something new then buy into another system and keep or sell off the Pentax gear. It is after all just a means to an end, the photo is not the product of the camera but the person using it. a new camera won't instantly make you a better photographer.
True, I forgot about the 645, but realistically that may as well be a separate planet from the perspective of a K mount user. You seem to have forgotten that Nikon dropped the D4, and pretty much have soft released the D800. And the simple fact is, Pentax isn't Nikon.

And yes, my Nikon link was bad, but I could have pulled the real dirt from Thom Hogan's site. The point stands, it's not as if other manufacturers don't release quasi-official news far in advance of the product release.

"If the roadmap is not final why show it." Because it better lets customers understand what your products will be in a sea of comparable offerings? I don't understand how eventually announcing a product when there are already 5 on the market helps you retain your customer base. I don't understand how announcing a unique offering doesn't help freeze the purchases of your competitor's products and potentially poach customers. I don't see why getting feedback before you've made a million of them hurts you. I don't see being worried about other manufactureres poaching the concept, since if it's successfully that will get done anyway. Therefore I don't see the downside of getting it out there as a concept as soon as it's a product you're pretty sure you're going to build.

I just don't buy the 3 months excuse. People are acting like Ricoh went out on a bender and found Pentax in it's pocket the next morning. To suggest that Ricoh did not have a strategy in place before the takeover is either ludicrous or makes Ricoh a not particularly well run company, neither of which will I accept as true. And all I'm saying is if, after x number of months of prep, and 3 months of full control, you have nothing to announce, then you're tap dancing for time, not dropping hints about stuff that's actually anywhere near pipeline. I'll make you a friendly wager that they won't announce a K mount GRX module at CP+ (the point of my original post in this thread); the loser can come here and proclaim that he was wrong.

As you're likely aware, from the Fuji threads in the off brand forum, I'm in the market for a MILC. I'd like to see a K mount camera, but I've danced variations of this dance before, for years here on News and Rumors; always ready to be announced in a few months. If I'm wrong, great, just don't think I am.

And with that, I'm done. Anyone who feels the need to tell me what a fool/traitor I am, please feel free to PM me and we can have it out there.
01-17-2012, 05:59 PM   #38
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Nope, if you want a MILC you want one. Heck I want the Fuji myself (may take a while though)

The one plus is there was that mystery camera at ces , there are some rumours we'll start to see leaks dropping towards february, Pentax day is the 4th, CP+ a week later. If it was the second long rumoured APSC MILC and it's a rugged design it may well be beating the others to market
If it's K mount great though i don't know that it would be, a different mount with a K adapter makes more sense to get the size thing. If that's the case then it better launch like the Fuji with leaked roadmaps for the lenses and at least 3 lenses to start (Heck the Q launched with 5 but only 3 were serious)
It may also explain any delays in the Kr replacement announcement production may have been dedicated to this launch so it's not a long wait for it to come to market

As for the GXR module I wouldn't take the bet from what i've read its still a discussion, and since you can mount a k or m42 or pretty much anything to an m mountor it's not a rush item unless you want AF support of course

01-17-2012, 08:00 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
There are a lot of paranoid fools who are obviously clueless on the workings of business. Ricoh bought Pentax with a strategy to pursue Canon, their nearest rival in the copier business. They CANNOT stop delivering cameras in the next few years. They must make a valiant attempt to fulfill the promises they made to their board. It is incomprehensible that they would throw in the towel in the next few years.

Ricoh Pentax Imaging is all of three months old. They've stated repeatedly and clearly that they intend to grow the Pentax brand. That should be good enough for anyone but a total pessimist or a Pentax hater.
OK, my turn. I agree with your conclusion but I hope you did not intend to imply that Ricoh's camera strategy is based on the presence of Canon as an office printer/copier competitor. These markets and product families are too dissimilar to link. Ricoh would drive itself nuts trying to intertwine camera developments with high-volume printing marketing.
01-17-2012, 10:17 PM   #40
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How about everybody admits they don't know fock-all what products Pentax-Ricoh have in the pipeline? And then stop agonizing about the uncertainty. Get real lives, people. Misplaced camera angst is misplaced. At least I admit that my hunches are untainted by actual information. Give it a rest. When the time is right, we'll know. Until then it's lots of blather. [/me returns to webcomix]
01-17-2012, 11:01 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
How about everybody admits they don't know fock-all what products Pentax-Ricoh have in the pipeline?
That would be asking too much, they would have all this spare time on their hands, which would mean they would have to actually have to go take some photos, perish the thought!
01-18-2012, 12:20 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
Ah, the song of the fanboy.

Yep, no other camera maker has ever released a roadmap or a prototype.

Oh wait, yes they have. They do it all the time in fact. And we've been being fed this particular rumor wrapped in different paper for a couple of years now, and it's never come to pass.
That's all you can do? Calling names and a sorry excuse for a strawman?
Elementary, my dear junyo; if they don't show us a roadmap it simply means they don't want to show us a roadmap, today. Nothing more, nothing less.
Anyone can give examples of companies that wanted to show roadmaps (and did), or ones that didn't. Where is Canikon's lens roadmap, by the way?

FFS, of course they're working on new K-mount DSLRs and lenses even without a roadmap. The K-5 wasn't on any roadmap...

Last edited by Kunzite; 01-18-2012 at 12:30 AM.
01-18-2012, 12:22 AM   #43
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Ok...back to topic....



Personally I dont see Pentax doing ANY mirrorless body- the mirrorless body IS the GXR K mount.
The rumored new GXR body would have already been in development in response to the NEX cameras (hopefully also the X100) so should be closest to release.
01-18-2012, 12:34 AM   #44
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Something like this might also encourage Pentax to make more K-mount lenses...nice!

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01-18-2012, 03:18 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonto Quote


Personally I dont see Pentax doing ANY mirrorless body- the mirrorless body IS the GXR K mount.
The rumored new GXR body would have already been in development in response to the NEX cameras (hopefully also the X100) so should be closest to release.
I'm not sure a GXR K-mount module will be mirrorless, at least not if it will support AF. If AF is to be close to a DSLR performance (or even other mirrorless systems) the module need phase detect AF sensor, which at the moment I think can only be done with a mirror (like in Sony SLT cameras).

If using contrast detect AF with no mirror AF with K-mount lenses will be slow, and continous AF will not be very useful. If they choose this option I don't see what market they are after, as a kit with GXR-body, K-mount module and EVF will probably be more expensive than K5. And it will not be much smaller, have much slower AF and might not include shake reduction.

But they might go for a cheap simple manual focus only module. This will not require much R&D as they already have the M-mount module.

Last edited by Fogel70; 01-18-2012 at 03:45 AM.
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