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02-04-2012, 09:48 PM   #1921
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Ricoh needs to reveal this before the year ends, otherwise I truly believe Fuji will be first to the market.
I don't think the new Fuji X mount can accommodate FF. Only the Sony E can and there are no native FF lenses for that.

02-04-2012, 09:53 PM   #1922
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
You're basically asking for a FF SLT camera (CD+FF). I'd buy that too, but I don't think it will happen any time soon. Sony will build it first - they would have announced it already if not for the floods. I'd be surprised if Pentax comes with something like this even in 2 years from now.
You're a bit of a debbie downer...

Sony have zero lenses for FF E mount. That's quite an uphill task they have in comparison to K mount.

I'd be VERY surprised if Pentax DIDN'T have an FF DSLR and an FF ILC two years from now. It's their primary competitive advantage.
02-04-2012, 11:24 PM   #1923
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
You're a bit of a debbie downer...
Just a realist.

QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
Sony have zero lenses for FF E mount. That's quite an uphill task they have in comparison to K mount.
I was talking about the rumored A99 - the SLT camera with the alpha mount - they have plenty of lenses for that.

Full frame E mount will probably appear around the same time as FF K mount

QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
I'd be VERY surprised if Pentax DIDN'T have an FF DSLR and an FF ILC two years from now. It's their primary competitive advantage.
I am VERY surprised already by the moves that Pentax makes. I expect this to continue for a while.
02-04-2012, 11:27 PM   #1924
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
I don't think the new Fuji X mount can accommodate FF.
I agree. I don't think they care about FF either. But some people are criticizing the XPro1 for not being FF and expect that Fuji will bring yet another system quite soon.

02-05-2012, 03:01 AM   #1925
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I agree. I don't think they care about FF either. But some people are criticizing the XPro1 for not being FF and expect that Fuji will bring yet another system quite soon.
If they bring out another mount, they'll need to build an entirely new ecosystem of lenses, while either disregarding the new X mount, or continuing to populate that lens system at the same time. Sounds costly and time-consuming, considering Pentax are already there...

Good luck to them, but Pentax have already pinned their flag to a FF-compatible mount and register distance.

Sensor prices are going to keep falling. It's inevitable that if Pentax put FF into the X-0 line, there will come a time when a FF body will be US$1K. Following that, there will then come a time when a mirrorless FF body will be US$500. The sensor is going to continue becoming a smaller and smaller cost as percentage of manufacturing cost.

When that inevitable time comes, who is going to win the IQ tests? A manufacturer betrothed to M4/3 or APS-C? Or one that is sporting a FF sensor, due to having the most future-proof AND past-compatible mount in the business?
02-05-2012, 03:51 AM   #1926
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I agree. I don't think they care about FF either. But some people are criticizing the XPro1 for not being FF and expect that Fuji will bring yet another system quite soon.
I expect to be told that XPro1 is good enough and FF is actually unneeded.
Wait, they're already doing it.
02-05-2012, 04:31 AM   #1927
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I expect to be told that XPro1 is good enough and FF is actually unneeded.
Wait, they're already doing it.
Don't think so. Their 35 is soft wide open. Any cheap 50/1.8 on FF will blow this crap away.
28 + 50 + 90 would be cheaper solution I believe than 18 + 35 + 60.
02-05-2012, 04:47 AM   #1928
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You don't think so - what exactly?
"indeed Fujifilm is claiming it will out-resolve the full frame 21MP Canon EOS 5D Mark II."
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

"X-Pro1 has gone one step further to achieve the level of picture quality that outperforms that of other interchangeable lens cameras and even full-size SLRs."
1: Revolutionary CMOS Sensor | FUJIFILM X-Pro1

02-05-2012, 04:47 AM   #1929
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I expect to be told that XPro1 is good enough and FF is actually unneeded.
Wait, they're already doing it.
X1Pro has rather slow AF. As for noise - it's the level of K-5 IMO
02-05-2012, 05:09 AM   #1930
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You don't think so - what exactly?
While the idea applied in the new Fuji sensor is nice, it's impact is rather subtle only.

It does not increase resolution, nor does it increase dynamic range or reduce noise. So, there is no technical base to claim that it makes APSC "equal" to FF.

What it does is that it sacrifyces a bit of color resolution in order to broaden the frequency spectrum of color moire artefacts (i.e., more frequencies where they appear, but each one less pronounced). And they use it as reason to remove the AA filter which reduces color noise (because you have to sharpen less in post processing) but still increases fixed pattern noise (moire). In all cases, the resolution limit for black and white patterns is the Nyquist frequency which is not altered by Fuji's tech. Nor is the light sensitive surface.
02-05-2012, 05:29 AM   #1931
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I am wondering if a K mount module would have SR. Not that I would be interested in one anyway, but I wonder if it's possible or it might be too much of a challenge for the GXR design.
I have a GXR it's a really good camera. The image quality is very good. The big complaint is the shutter which forces you to use ND filters at the widest apertures. Fuji was clever by building it into the camera with the X100. Other than that I have no complaints against the GXR. I'm not sure how big a K mount module would be. The GXR is a really small camera so I'm not sure a K mount module would work. But then again I've seen some huge lenses mounted on Sony Nex's.

I actually use my GXR a lot. I think it's my favorite camera for B/W conversions. At some point I'll probably get the M mount module and a 50+ or so lens so I have a 28+50+portrait combo. That's all I ever really use.

I've found the people who complain about the GXR mostly have used one. Does that sound familiar? Actually the lenses on the camera really good so the whole complaining about the sensor module thing is kind off point. The are every bit as good a DA Limited lenses and perhaps a bit better. So at approx. $650 they aren't really that overpriced. Plus you never have to worry about dust on the sensor.

I've been selling off a lot of gear lately because it's just gotten in the way of me enjoying photography. I wouldn't sell the GXR.
02-05-2012, 08:05 AM   #1932
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You don't think so - what exactly?
"indeed Fujifilm is claiming it will out-resolve the full frame 21MP Canon EOS 5D Mark II."
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
That's not ridiculously surprising. I like the K-5 sensor better than the 5D. Hell, the 5D mk ii will have it's 4th birthday this year.
02-05-2012, 08:26 AM   #1933
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
While the idea applied in the new Fuji sensor is nice, it's impact is rather subtle only.

It does not increase resolution, nor does it increase dynamic range or reduce noise. So, there is no technical base to claim that it makes APSC "equal" to FF.
Please note that I said "I expect to be told that XPro1 is good enough and FF is actually unneeded." - not that it will actually happen
02-05-2012, 10:23 PM   #1934
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
When that inevitable time comes, who is going to win the IQ tests? A manufacturer betrothed to M4/3 or APS-C? Or one that is sporting a FF sensor, due to having the most future-proof AND past-compatible mount in the business?
A larger sensor will always be better, but there is a point where performance is just good enough for most people and only a small segment of users will crave more. My feeling is that we'll get that performance level in MFT sensors way before FF sensors become dirt cheap. In fact, I don't think FF sensors will ever become dirt cheap, because the market for them will always be small and won't be able to support their development at the same rate as that of smaller sensors. But we'll live and we'll see.
02-06-2012, 12:08 AM   #1935
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
A larger sensor will always be better, but there is a point where performance is just good enough for most people and only a small segment of users will crave more. My feeling is that we'll get that performance level in MFT sensors way before FF sensors become dirt cheap. In fact, I don't think FF sensors will ever become dirt cheap, because the market for them will always be small and won't be able to support their development at the same rate as that of smaller sensors. But we'll live and we'll see.
Sensors are like chips. They only get cheaper.

And people always want better performance. If you're shooting your kid acting in a production in the school hall in low light, would you prefer FF or M4/3?
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