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02-08-2012, 04:28 AM   #1966
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
With my EPL2, the resulting combo is 705g.
No, it's not. The 17mm alone weighs 540g, so with E-PL2 and batteries, I get a total of 902g.

QuoteQuote:
You can compensate with ISO, but why not use both low ISO and fast apertures? ISO improvements are also not huge - barely a bit over one stop between K10D and K-5.
Actually, as I mentioned, the weakness is really in the low ISO department. I think the OM-D may be the perfect camera for my daughter (she has an NEX-7 on order, but they still can't deliver), but I really hope they've managed to improve DR at low ISO. According to dxomark.com, the GX-1 has a DR at ISO 160 which is in the same ballpark as K-5 DR @ISO 1600 and K10D DR @ ISO 200. And ISO 160 is the lowest possible.

02-08-2012, 07:22 AM   #1967
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Mrs. ElJamoquio and I tried the EPL-2 and EPL-1 if I recall the models correctly. In addition to the red spots during sunsets, and problems focusing, they both had large amounts of noise, more comparable to her high-end P&S than my K-5.
02-08-2012, 09:20 AM   #1968
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
No, it's not. The 17mm alone weighs 540g, so with E-PL2 and batteries, I get a total of 902g.
Are you talking about the Olympus 17mm/2.8 with that 504g weight? If so, you're off by 433g. The 17mm pancake only weights 71g (2.5oz). Now the new Voigtlander 17.5mm f/0.95 is quite heavy, but we're also talking about an f/0.95 lens there.

Ready to shoot the new OMD + 17mm pancake weighs in at a "whopping" 496g. I think Olympus has a huge hit on their hands with the outdoor community. Us hiking idiots pay hundreds more to save a few ounces on gear. For me the the OMD will easily replace a K-7/5 as my outdoor enthusiasts camera of choice. Yes, I know the K5 has better image quality, but I find the 16mp m4/3's sensor to be perfectly acceptable.

The K-01 has started to grow on me, but I still really think Pentax should have made a new slimmer mount instead of sticking with the K-Mount. The K-01 just doesn't seem to have much appeal outside of the Pentax ecosystem. A quick look at Amazon shows that the new OM-D is in the #2 and 3 spots in new camera releases (behind the D800), and the Pentax K-01 is nowhere to be found in the top 50. We'll see how this settles out, but I don't like Pentax's chances of coming close to matching the sales number Olympus will have with the OM-D. Which is a shame, Olympus isn't doing anything Pentax couldn't have done.

Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 02-08-2012 at 09:49 AM.
02-08-2012, 09:44 AM   #1969
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Are you talking about the Olympus 17mm/2.8 with that 504g weight? If so, you're off by 433g. The 17mm pancake only weights 71g (2.5oz). Now the new Voigtlander 17.5mm f/0.95 is quite heavy, but we're also talking about an f/0.95 lens there.
Yes, we were discussing the 0.95 lens of course - it's quite a weight for a 35mm 1.9 equivalent...

QuoteQuote:

Ready to shoot the new OMD + 17mm pancake weighs in at a "whopping" 496g. I think Olympus has a huge hit on their hands with the outdoor community. Us hiking idiots pay hundreds more to save a few ounces. For me the the OMD will easily replace a K-7/5 as my outdoor enthusiasts camera of choice. Yes, I know the K5 has better image quality, but I find the 16mp m4/3's sensor to be perfectly acceptable.
.
The OM-D sure looks promising. And everybody assumes it's the G3 sensor, but at 9fps it's probably a new sensor, maybe a new version of the GH2 sensor. I'm guessing it will have better low iso DR than G3. My daughter is almost ready to cancel her NEX-7 order after 3 months of waiting

02-08-2012, 09:46 AM   #1970
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
My daughter is almost ready to cancel her NEX-7 order after 3 months of waiting
I did the same

I only have two issues with the OM-D; no ISO100, and the viewfinder magnification is lower than I'd prefer. Oh well, no camera is perfect...and now I'll have an excuse to upgrade to the E-M6 one day
02-08-2012, 10:10 AM   #1971
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Art, the OMD is a different target and priced higher. I imagine when Pentax releases an enthusiast Mirrorless we'll get something closer to what we are looking for

I think the OMD will be big up front, the K-o1 will take time to find it's market (OMD and Fuji target markets that are early adopters and frequent Forums - the enthusiasts. K-01 customer is a different kettle of fish and sales won't really take off until it''s in shops - another issue to be addressed - it should be in Target I think and other non camera stores)
02-08-2012, 01:01 PM   #1972
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Ready to shoot the new OMD + 17mm pancake weighs in at a "whopping" 496g. I think Olympus has a huge hit on their hands with the outdoor community. Us hiking idiots pay hundreds more to save a few ounces on gear.
Is it WR?

QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Which is a shame, Olympus isn't doing anything Pentax couldn't have done.
I disagree. I'm glad Pentax went this route. I don't care how many units Olympus sells... with admittedly year-old-information, the M 4/3'ds didn't come close to the IQ that the Pentax had in marginal situations. In 'good light' the Olympus didn't substantially outperform highest-end P&S's from what I could see. You could argue that the Olympus had more control over DOF than a P&S, and you'd be right, but it still wasn't very much control with the 'reasonably priced' lenses.

Last edited by ElJamoquio; 02-08-2012 at 01:10 PM.
02-08-2012, 01:07 PM   #1973
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Yes. It looks fantastic - tilting LCD & EVF, things I wish we'd had too.

02-08-2012, 03:47 PM   #1974
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
No, it's not. The 17mm alone weighs 540g, so with E-PL2 and batteries, I get a total of 902g.
I was talking about the 25mm. That is why I was comparing with APS-C 35/1.4.

If you want to consider the 17mm, then you have to look at an equivalent APS-C 24/1.4 lens (not a 35/1.4!) and check its weight. I think you'll find the extra weight of the 17 over the 25 is compensated by the extra weight of the 24 over the 35. Not to mention the bulk and volume of these f/1.4 lenses.

A problem is that there are no equivalent APS-C lenses for Pentax. The only lenses available are FF lenses, which makes the comparison particularly bad for the APS-C side, but that is the reality.

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Actually, as I mentioned, the weakness is really in the low ISO department. I think the OM-D may be the perfect camera for my daughter (she has an NEX-7 on order, but they still can't deliver), but I really hope they've managed to improve DR at low ISO. According to dxomark.com, the GX-1 has a DR at ISO 160 which is in the same ballpark as K-5 DR @ISO 1600 and K10D DR @ ISO 200. And ISO 160 is the lowest possible.
My point was that if the scene you shoot only has 8Ev, it doesn't matter that the GX1 has 10Ev and the K-5 has 14Ev. Both can capture that scene - the extra 6Ev of the K-5 is useless for that shot. You are pointing at numbers as if they would matter for each shot - they don't. The extra DR available certainly matters for some extreme situations and as a buffer, but its lack does not mean that a camera is crippled and cannot take images just as good.
02-08-2012, 04:50 PM   #1975
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Then I wonder why Pentax would not (be able to?) produce a viewfinder of this type:

Stolen from Nass' post No.: 1978 above:
E-M5

" Intuitively Designed Electronic Viewfinder
The OM-D's new electronic viewfinder (EVF), with 120 fps refresh rate, features a high-resolution 1.44-million dot LCD, 100% field-of-view coverage, and 1.15x maximum magnification .
"

JP
02-08-2012, 08:14 PM   #1976
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02-09-2012, 12:54 AM   #1977
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I was talking about the 25mm.
Ok, but the next time you switch subject, please tell us...
QuoteQuote:
My point was that if the scene you shoot only has 8Ev, it doesn't matter that the GX1 has 10Ev and the K-5 has 14Ev. Both can capture that scene - the extra 6Ev of the K-5 is useless for that shot. You are pointing at numbers as if they would matter for each shot - they don't. The extra DR available certainly matters for some extreme situations and as a buffer, but its lack does not mean that a camera is crippled and cannot take images just as good.
In general, you're right of course. But I've been shooting with my K10d for more than 4 years now, and I use iso100 whenever I can - because of that extra dr compared to iso200 (and consequently, compared to GX-1/G3). It's a subtle difference, but it does matter for some shots.
02-09-2012, 01:12 AM   #1978
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Ok, but the next time you switch subject, please tell us...
Your multiple personalities, you mean? You guys should have figured it out from my mention of a 35/1.4 equivalent. As far as the subject goes, I was talking about both lenses already, so why are you so surprised that I continued to talk about the one that I actually have experience with?

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
My first argument was the Nokton 25/0.95 which allows me to shoot at ISO 200 and not worry about sensor size.

Cosina seems to be making my wishes come true since they just announced a 17/0.95 lens.
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
In general, you're right of course. But I've been shooting with my K10d for more than 4 years now, and I use iso100 whenever I can - because of that extra dr compared to iso200 (and consequently, compared to GX-1/G3). It's a subtle difference, but it does matter for some shots.
I went the opposite way with my K10D: I used to shoot at ISO100 exclusively. Now I use 400 and 800 liberally. Go figure.
02-09-2012, 01:17 AM   #1979
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Then I wonder why Pentax would not (be able to?) produce a viewfinder of this type:

Stolen from Nass' post No.: 1978 above:
E-M5

" Intuitively Designed Electronic Viewfinder
The OM-D's new electronic viewfinder (EVF), with 120 fps refresh rate, features a high-resolution 1.44-million dot LCD, 100% field-of-view coverage, and 1.15x maximum magnification .
"

JP
Do you find it's very good EVF? Don't you think that EVF is made by
another manufacturer?
02-09-2012, 02:00 AM   #1980
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Your multiple personalities, you mean?
Don't be rude - it's not my fault that you're not paying attention!

Since you obviously are too lazy to re-check the thread yourself, here are the quotes in chronological order:

You wrote: "Cosina seems to be making my wishes come true since they just announced a 17/0.95 lens."

I wrote: "The OM-D with that lens will weigh very close to 1 kg, it's not very light-weight anymore..."

You wrote: "With my EPL2, the resulting combo is 705g.", quoting the line above.

I hope you understand that it was very difficult for me to guess that "the resulting combo" suddenly was a combo with a different lens than the 17/0.95...
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