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02-10-2012, 02:08 PM   #2011
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
Wow, and all you have to do is buy all new lenses to take advantage of it... Thus negating mount compatibility.
Huh? My 15mm/35/40mm are much smaller than anything I've seen attached to a Sony, although I must admit I'm not all that familiar with their lens lineup. I'm sure the 16mm you've mentioned is a fine lens, but I somehow doubt it compares with the 'wow' factor I get every time I take a sunset picture with the 15.

Just because I won't have the absolute smallest lens doesn't mean that I can't use a pretty damn small lens and still get that benefit.

02-10-2012, 02:30 PM   #2012
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
The idea only works if you're forced to re-buy focal lengths,
I think youre missing the point. Your arent forced to buy anything. The day you buy the camera, you can use all your existing lenses with full compatibility, no adapters needed. If you want a smaller package, that is available to you with lenses specific to this camera platform. This does not, in any way, negate the lens compatibility argument at all.

I cant figure out how a new mount is better. That would require an entire new lens lineup, plus an adapter to use your existing lenses - now that is negating compatibility. The Q now technically allows me to mount K-mount lenses on it with the new adapter, yet I'm still not going to buy a Q.
02-10-2012, 04:41 PM   #2013
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The Sony NEX7 is 16.2mm thinner than the K-01... great, now I feel I'll never buy a Pentax again!
02-10-2012, 08:20 PM   #2014
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
Wow, and all you have to do is buy all new lenses to take advantage of it... Thus negating mount compatibility.

The idea only works if you're forced to re-buy focal lengths, in lens that are small system only, since the intrusion will make them a no go on anything with a mirror. So in exchange for avoiding an adapter (yay!), you've welded an extension tube on to the body (um, I guess yay?), which pretty much raises the cost of entry for anyone contemplating a switch from another brand (boo!).

Awesome marketshare building.

People can keep coming up with magical ways that this makes sense, but it really doesn't. A NEX7 with their 16mm pancake mounted is darn near the depth of a K-01 body; good luck making a lens so deep in makes the host body thinner. At any given focal length you've given up a couple cm before you've even started, and now you have to jump through hoops tucking parts of the lens inside the body just to hold ground, let alone trying to have a smaller overall package.
OK. I am trying to follow your logic. There is basically one "small" lens that is available for the Sony NEX right now that is usable without an adapter and with autofocus. That particular lens is not mountable on any Sony SLR or SLT camera, thereby forcing those who own the NEX to be screwed by Sony into buying a lens that may duplicate something they already own, merely to get a small package? And, if you don't happen to like the 16mm focal length, you are screwed as well? Hmmm....

On the other hand, Pentax has many small prime lenses in various focal lengths (15,21,40,70) that are usable without an adapter and will give a reasonably small overall package. If the purchaser wishes to buy even smaller lenses that will not be usable on Pentax SLRs, they will have that option as well. But they don't have to!

The reality is that mirrorless will create a branching of lenses. Some that are usable on mirrorless and not on SLRs and some that are usable on both. You make it sound like this is not true for the NEX and it is absolutely true for the NEX, much more so than for the Pentax K-01.

02-10-2012, 09:06 PM   #2015
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
OK. I am trying to follow your logic. There is basically one "small" lens that is available for the Sony NEX right now that is usable without an adapter and with autofocus. That particular lens is not mountable on any Sony SLR or SLT camera, thereby forcing those who own the NEX to be screwed by Sony into buying a lens that may duplicate something they already own, merely to get a small package? And, if you don't happen to like the 16mm focal length, you are screwed as well? Hmmm....

On the other hand, Pentax has many small prime lenses in various focal lengths (15,21,40,70) that are usable without an adapter and will give a reasonably small overall package. If the purchaser wishes to buy even smaller lenses that will not be usable on Pentax SLRs, they will have that option as well. But they don't have to!

The reality is that mirrorless will create a branching of lenses. Some that are usable on mirrorless and not on SLRs and some that are usable on both. You make it sound like this is not true for the NEX and it is absolutely true for the NEX, much more so than for the Pentax K-01.
The reality is... Pentax is taking notice of 4k video... The next camera from Pentax on the mirrorless front may be a pro level video biased evil cam.... using the k-xs line of lenses as thier basis for cinema lenses... silent fast af for video.... in that case the xs line will be adopted by video shooters that don't already own Pentax slrs and they won't care about it. But they will still be able to use any pentax lens ever made, and there will still be d-slrs being made with standard k-mount...
it isn't a betrayal... just a new market segment to pursue!
02-10-2012, 09:42 PM   #2016
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D0n - Well then they had best get another processor manufacturer in line for it, because the next gen of PRIME after the K-01 isn't due for well over another year..

Back to the AA's (sorry!)
As I do like the idea of being ABLE to use AA's if your forced to, when you don't have access to a power source to charge your batteries.. But I'd hate to see so much extra bulk added to a camera to accomodate 4 AA's compared to 1 DLi-90 or other L-ion battery option. The Grip uses 6 AA's and that is quite a lot of extra bulk.. I've carried 6AA's charged and ready just in case, but I've NEVER needed to use them. And when I did use them (just to say I actually used it for a day) the extra weight was noticeable after a short period of time. In all honesty there's not many places you really go that you have NO access to power, just be smart about what you pack! There are CHEAP 80W cigarette lighter plug-in inverters than will easily handle charging your camera battery in ANY 12V vehicle plug.. and even when your back packing around tibet or wherever you are.. you usually do not go for that many days between being in or having access to a vehicle for a long enough that you could charge a battery or two. My 80W inverter stays with my camera gear.. no need to AA's!

Last edited by Chex; 02-10-2012 at 09:55 PM.
02-10-2012, 09:53 PM   #2017
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QuoteOriginally posted by D0n Quote
The reality is... Pentax is taking notice of 4k video... The next camera from Pentax on the mirrorless front may be a pro level video biased evil cam.... using the k-xs line of lenses as thier basis for cinema lenses... silent fast af for video.... in that case the xs line will be adopted by video shooters that don't already own Pentax slrs and they won't care about it. But they will still be able to use any pentax lens ever made, and there will still be d-slrs being made with standard k-mount...
it isn't a betrayal... just a new market segment to pursue!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but most Pentax lenses - even the XS line as far as I can tell - use the mechanical screwmount AF which makes far too much noise for video. The noise will definitely be picked up by the on-camera mic and likely a hotshoe mic as well. I'm not even sure that the handful of SDM lenses are completely silent like the Panasonic 14-140.

Additionally there are other desirable qualities in lenses that not all Pentax lenses have (including the XS) such as aperture rings without detents, geared collars for follow-focus units, and designs that don't "breathe" as they are focused (I don't know where Pentax lenses stand on this issue). The K-01 lacks audio monitoring, XLR connectors, external power (IIRC), and long than 25 minutes recording time, things that a company really serious about video in 2012 would have figured out.

I'm as excited by the next guy about the K-01 and can't wait to try out the video. But let's not get ahead of ourselves and declare Pentax winners quite yet. As a happy owner of a Panasonic GH2, I realize that Pentax has some catching up to do...
02-10-2012, 10:29 PM   #2018
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Sorry to burst your bubble, but most Pentax lenses - even the XS line as far as I can tell - use the mechanical screwmount AF which makes far too much noise for video. The noise will definitely be picked up by the on-camera mic and likely a hotshoe mic as well. I'm not even sure that the handful of SDM lenses are completely silent like the Panasonic 14-140.

Additionally there are other desirable qualities in lenses that not all Pentax lenses have (including the XS) such as aperture rings without detents, geared collars for follow-focus units, and designs that don't "breathe" as they are focused (I don't know where Pentax lenses stand on this issue). The K-01 lacks audio monitoring, XLR connectors, external power (IIRC), and long than 25 minutes recording time, things that a company really serious about video in 2012 would have figured out.

I'm as excited by the next guy about the K-01 and can't wait to try out the video. But let's not get ahead of ourselves and declare Pentax winners quite yet. As a happy owner of a Panasonic GH2, I realize that Pentax has some catching up to do...
I'm looking further ahead than you. you're looking at what is... I'm looking at where it is going. the xs lenses that sit recessed into the body of the k-01 are simply the first... the next gen WILL have silent af... and the next gen WILL have faster af, and the next gen WILL have 4 k video and future xs lenses WILL be biased towards video.

lots of pros shooting video with d-slrs that have worked around the other issues you pointed out...

xlr connectors audio monitoring... camera noises..... problem solved: zoom h2 and rode mic pro's
25 min recording times... maybe just a firmware/marketing thing to avoid uk video tax
external power... next gen k-02... why not there's already a power supply for the k-5....
In the mean time...
the k-01, based on the available specs is a impressive video tool in it's own rights.

02-10-2012, 10:41 PM   #2019
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QuoteOriginally posted by D0n Quote
I'm looking further ahead than you. you're looking at what is... I'm looking at where it is going. the xs lenses that sit recessed into the body of the k-01 are simply the first... the next gen WILL have silent af... and the next gen WILL have faster af, and the next gen WILL have 4 k video and future xs lenses WILL be biased towards video.

lots of pros shooting video with d-slrs that have worked around the other issues you pointed out...

xlr connectors audio monitoring... camera noises..... problem solved: zoom h2 and rode mic pro's
25 min recording times... maybe just a firmware/marketing thing to avoid uk video tax
external power... next gen k-02... why not there's already a power supply for the k-5....
In the mean time...
the k-01, based on the available specs is a impressive video tool in it's own rights.
I appreciate you enthusiasm. You better tell Pentax what your plans are for them - they may not know!

btw, we shoot separate audio with dSLRs not because we want to but because we have to. And I'll let you know how the K-01 compares to the GH2 as soon as I get my hands on one.
02-10-2012, 10:54 PM   #2020
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Good news is the DC motor in the 18-135 is VERY quiet.. damn near silent..
02-11-2012, 03:58 AM   #2021
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
this month
you know something new from another brand next month?
02-11-2012, 04:46 AM   #2022
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
Back to the AA's (sorry!)
I think I understand. AA's are not for you. but I can't access the cigarette lighter in a bus, on my bike or when walking and these are my preferred/typical travel options. I also like being able to use the same battery for multiple uses. My GPS, bike lights, camera and flash (rarely taken traveling) all use AA's in addition to several items that use AAA's. With 3 APSC cameras out at the same time (K-01, new K-r and new K-5) I think it's possible that the new K-r uses AA's like the K-x and K200D (2 year cycle?). I'm hoping that they also add WR to further differentiate it from the K-01 and make it a mid level camera.
02-11-2012, 04:51 AM   #2023
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I appreciate you enthusiasm. You better tell Pentax what your plans are for them - they may not know!

btw, we shoot separate audio with dSLRs not because we want to but because we have to. And I'll let you know how the K-01 compares to the GH2 as soon as I get my hands on one.
Check out th ePentax uk forum... I spelled out the specs for the k-01 years before they built one... years...
I predicted the recessed lenses long before the first image was leaked as well.

I was also several years ahead of ALL d-slrs in predicting the inclusion of video...

I think somebody at pentax does read my posts..

02-11-2012, 06:58 AM   #2024
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
Wow, and all you have to do is buy all new lenses to take advantage of it... Thus negating mount compatibility.

The idea only works if you're forced to re-buy focal lengths, in lens that are small system only, since the intrusion will make them a no go on anything with a mirror. So in exchange for avoiding an adapter (yay!), you've welded an extension tube on to the body (um, I guess yay?), which pretty much raises the cost of entry for anyone contemplating a switch from another brand (boo!).

Awesome marketshare building.

People can keep coming up with magical ways that this makes sense, but it really doesn't. A NEX7 with their 16mm pancake mounted is darn near the depth of a K-01 body; good luck making a lens so deep in makes the host body thinner. At any given focal length you've given up a couple cm before you've even started, and now you have to jump through hoops tucking parts of the lens inside the body just to hold ground, let alone trying to have a smaller overall package.
Hm, one can see it that way, or another way:

Pentax has at this moment a nice set of small high quality pancake-lenses, which might all be used by this camera with all their functionality. Mounting a 40 mm (be it xs, or even the regular one is thin) or the 70 mm will give an overall size which is ok and has to be matched by some other systems with this functionality (AF, full aperture control..., quickshift and focus peaking!). Sony can't, they don't have the lenses, at least not now.

On the other hand additionally in the wideangle area lenses can be made even thinner for mirrorless cameras. This doesn't make sense for tele lenses, but if the 21 mm or 15 mm are produced especially as protruding xs versions (actually, the optical formulae must be different, if the position of the lens elements is not the same). So with two new lenses you have the option of a very compact prime system AND you keep the benefit of the full compatibility of all K-mount lenses.

Is the glass half full or half empty? Your choice, which doesn't tell so much about Pentax but more about the commentor, but fair enough.

Last edited by MMVIII; 02-11-2012 at 07:06 AM.
02-11-2012, 07:07 AM   #2025
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This may have been covered, but why is there no remote release socket, something I use all the time? Would a 3.5mm socket spoil the lines of a brick?

I do applaud Pentax for grasping the mirrorless concept, their expertise was (is) in the mechanical aspects of cameras, mirror boxes, shutters etc. where their skills are, so to take a, for them, huge leap and ignore all that is to be applauded, there are lots of advantages to mirrorless and in time I think all cameras will be this design, but they have not gone far enough, video is far easier with mirrorless. I feel they have missed an opportunity to get way ahead of the field.

Look at how Panasonic implements video to see what I mean. Everything except ISO is alterable during filming. High bit rates are available, admittedly with a hack, but they're higher than most out of the box, I currently use 44Mb/sec with my GH2 and get HD videos that project beautifully onto a 40ft cinema screen.

But omitting something as basic as a remote shutter release is, for me, unforgivable.

Chris
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