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01-20-2012, 11:34 AM   #346
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One way of making the camera thinner would be to keep the mirror (but locked down) and put the SR and sensor assembly up where the penta prism is now. That would easily shave 10mm wouldn't it?

01-20-2012, 11:36 AM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
All true. I would guess this camera is the one that was supposed to be have been released at the end of last year. A four month delay dues to Ricoh purchasing Pentax and two natual disasters.

I was wondering if the traditional sensor moving SR was done away with to save some thickness. In its place is digital shake reduction. Isn't digital stabilizaton used in some digicams?

Dave

Electronic shake reduction works by using a percentage of the sensor (camcorders have had it in the Sony l(and others) line for eons. I think the Pentax SR is far more effective myself and it doesn't sacrifice image quality to do so. The SR idea is like a mirror image of the OIS idea moving it to the body from the lens and moving the sensor instead of the optics.
01-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #348
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but you only get shift, no tilt
depends how you shake your camera
01-20-2012, 11:48 AM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
Very interesting and a possibility. It will be interesting to see the new lens mount.

Still I can not see a 40mm pancake needing to fit inside the camera body any. It is about the thickness of a body cap.

Still a new lens series made for CDAF and movies is a very good possibility.

Dave
The 40mm must be about 20mm thick? If fitted flush with the front of the lens mount, the overall thickness of body + lens would remain 59mm, looking the same as something like an NEX fitted with Sony's pancake. It would give the impression of a much smaller camera while simultaneously allowing standard K lenses to be fitted. The approach may allow the registration distance of subsequent lenses to be varied between lenses, freeing up that aspect of lens design. I don't know if that would be useful to a lens designer or not!

This scenario is pure conjecture though, it could be that the new lens is just a smoothed off SDM version of the DA40. That would be fine. A beefy mirrorless is something definitely missing from the marketplace and what you lose on the small form factor, you gain on usability with long lenses.

01-20-2012, 11:48 AM   #350
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Am I missing something here? How can SR ever be without moving parts? It involves a moving sensor! (Please don't start about software SR.)

Same thing with the optics. Focussing and zooming will always involve moving elements.

Some things cannot be solid state, because they simply do not consist fully of electronics. Like cars, electric razors and cameras.
Maybe, but you would probably be amazed at how much of today's modern car is "fly by wire". Steering's a bit off? 10 years ago you would've needed an alignment or a new rack&pinion. Nowadays you're just as likely to need a firmware update.
01-20-2012, 11:50 AM   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Am I missing something here? How can SR ever be without moving parts? It involves a moving sensor! (Please don't start about software SR.)
Better sensors -> Higher ISO ratings, less noise -> Faster shutter speeds -> No motion blur
01-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #352
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
CDAF on Olympus E-P3 is really fast when used with the new glass, but that is the problem.... new glass. Pentax is designing this to work with old glass which means it will probably be slow.

The lenses and the AF system need to work together. My guess is the new lenses that Pentax is bringing out are designed to work with CDAF.
Your questions were discussed previously in this thread. Several people have continued with this theme, so I thought it worthwhile to repost what Falk wrote above:

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Lenses aren't designed for PDAF (or CDAF). They have (or don't have) an AF motor or screw and a given mechanical accuracy. E.g., my old FA31 focusses in under 1s (using K-5 CDAF).

The necessity of dedicated CDAF lenses is a FT phenomenon which must be related to technical problems of FT lenses other brands don't have. Maybe, related to their focus by wire concept, I don't know.
So existing K-mount lenses will not have worse AF than new lenses, and there is no need to optimize Pentax AF lenses for contrast detection. What is needed is a good CDAF implementation, like in the Panasonic cameras.
01-20-2012, 12:04 PM   #353
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What is the point of using K-mount if the new "K" lenses won't work on old SLR bodies and old K-lenses won't be optimal on the new mirrorless bodies? Why not just go with new mount and K adapter in the first place?

01-20-2012, 12:10 PM   #354
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QuoteOriginally posted by DavidOBryan Quote
I'm excited about the possibility of a slightly more portable camera. I like to go hiking and a big camera can really get in the way sometimes. A small camera with a pocketful of DA primes would be pretty easy to carry.
I with you David....would be perfect travel camera for me and I don't want a new set of lenses
01-20-2012, 12:36 PM - 1 Like   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Lenses aren't designed for PDAF (or CDAF). They have (or don't have) an AF motor or screw and a given mechanical accuracy. E.g., my old FA31 focusses in under 1s (using K-5 CDAF).

The necessity of dedicated CDAF lenses is a FT phenomenon which must be related to technical problems of FT lenses other brands don't have. Maybe, related to their focus by wire concept, I don't know.
I read something about this when Sony came out with an adapter to mount their Alpha lenses on the NEX bodies. Focusing their A mount glass on the NEX was really slow with it. They explained it as thus:

Phase Detect autofocus has the ability to look at the current focus and know the direction of defocus (front or back) and approximately by how much. So it's easier to snap to the focus point directly. However, their Contract Detect autofocus algorithms basically samples the image many times per second as the focus is changed. Then the processor decides if the image is getting more contrast or less. The most contrast point is assumed to be the most in-focus. If you watch your Pentax K-5 do CDAF, you'll notice that it often overshoots the focus point, then comes back. So it might be a similar method. Once it gets close to the focus point, it moves the focus in small increments back and forth until it gets the point just right. In order to optimize the hardware design for this type of algorithm, they need the lens to focus quickly and to be able to change the lens from focusing forwards to backwards quickly. So they designed the lenses such that the elements of the lens that move during focusing are as light as possible. Lighter elements means less inertia, which means they can change position more quickly.
01-20-2012, 12:37 PM   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by mdodrill Quote
I with you David....would be perfect travel camera for me and I don't want a new set of lenses

+1 A rugged compact camera to take hiking or caving plus being able to take my old lenses are all big pluses.

Dave
01-20-2012, 12:38 PM - 1 Like   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
What is the point of using K-mount if the new "K" lenses won't work on old SLR bodies and old K-lenses won't be optimal on the new mirrorless bodies?
We don't have confirmation of what XS means. The discussion of different registry distances is just speculation.

QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
Why not just go with new mount and K adapter in the first place?
I don't think you can have in-body SR with an adapter. The main thing about this camera that interests me is that it allows full functionality with K-mount lenses. That's where it beats all other MILC designs hands down.
01-20-2012, 12:43 PM   #358
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A quick mockup of a thinner EVIL, still with SR and fully compatible K-mount. The SR and sensor moved up, the mirror permanently locked down. Pentaprism removed.

Maybe even a "new" SR, move the mirror ever so little.

(original K5 picture "borrowed" from Falk Lumo)


Last edited by Gimbal; 01-20-2012 at 12:53 PM.
01-20-2012, 01:12 PM   #359
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If it's true, the only goof thing about it is that they kept the k-mount for it meaning no extra money goes in to the developing of a new lens mount and lens for it.

Why didn't they do something special like throw an FF sensor in it?
Now it's just a cheaps man K5 which probably will not be cheaper at all....
01-20-2012, 01:14 PM   #360
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I am an SLR person for the past 40 years. All this chatter about the K01 and I am almost sold on it.

The extra winning feature for me would be a rotating screen. Then it would be a done deal (provided I have the money in the kitty)
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