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01-22-2012, 01:55 AM   #496
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Aren't you aware that this K01 rumor is the best thing which could happen to OVF believers?

Normally, an (inevitable) mirrorless camera launch from Pentax would introduce a new mount and eventually risk to kill their SLR business (i.e., their OVF business). As has happened for Olympus E mount users.

But with an approach like the K01, the mirrorless and mirrored (EVF and OVF) lines can coexist for a very long time with a single pool of lenses which is the best thing OVF believers could have hoped for.
I agree. I think launch of a mirrorless K mount camera is ideal. Getting rid of the mirror will make the camera a lot quieter, keeping the K mount registration distance means complete compatibility with existing lenses and the ergonomics of the body do not change substantially. I tried holding the Samsung NX-10 in the store and basically put it down right away. I found the NX-10 too thin to hold comfortably, I could imagine getting cramps in the right hand if I had to support a long telephoto lens for extended periods of time.

01-22-2012, 02:22 AM   #497
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QuoteOriginally posted by JerryLime Quote
Should I keep my DA Ltd. for coming K-mount MILC?
Will the new MILC support AF for DA lenses without built motor?
All your lenses will be worthless because of a RUMOUR... you should really sell them all very cheap to me because of that.
01-22-2012, 02:22 AM   #498
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That is why co-existence makes a lot of sense.
I don't know about that. Would have to see it. I used OVFs and I used EVFs, but I didn't see a useful combination yet (I have not used a Fuji camera and I heard their VFs have other shortcomings because the OVF is not TTL). I see more advantages in EVFs today anyway. I just played with the EVF of an A65 today and I didn't find anything lacking in it. If the alpha mount could use K-mount lenses, I'd have my camera upgrade path covered, but I still need to look around.

EVFs didn't replace OVFs because the technology was not good enough in past years. This doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. EVF tech was good enough to replace OVFs in P&S cameras because their users don't really need great VF accuracy for manual focusing. But SLRs are a different thing. Tech doesn't sit still though. One more generation of EVFs and your eyes will hurt if you'll pick an SLR.
01-22-2012, 02:30 AM   #499
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
An EVF is better than an OVF in many ways. It's also worse in others. There is no "best" here.
If we're talking about K mount anyway, I can see no advantage of EVF over a hybrid VF other than cost. What could possibly be better? (Assuming they make it work properly, obviously.)

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I wouldn't mind a camera with a viewfinder that can optionally display the EVF. One that can switch between OVF and mirror-up for EVF.
That would be that I mean with hybid VF. I forgot that I'm on the internet, where everything is automatically misunderstood. (Including by me, I must assume.)

01-22-2012, 02:37 AM   #500
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That is why co-existence makes a lot of sense.

If a EVF would make a OVF obsolete, then it would have already happened. LV and OVF have been living together in single bodies even, and it still hasn't made the OVF obsolete. (Because a EVF is LV on a tiny screen, not more.)

I wouldn't mind a camera with a viewfinder that can optionally display the EVF. One that can switch between OVF and mirror-up for EVF.
Not with current mirror /shutter implementations.
Too slow a reaction time between button press n shutter release.
The mirror needs to go down 1st, and then goes up again followed by shutter.
Its fine for static stuff, useless for moving subjects.
01-22-2012, 02:51 AM   #501
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Not with current mirror /shutter implementations.
Too slow a reaction time between button press n shutter release.
The mirror needs to go down 1st, and then goes up again followed by shutter.
Its fine for static stuff, useless for moving subjects.
I have no idea what you're talking about, please elaborate.

At current, the lag between two shots is extremely long in EVF camera. Have you ever operated a NEX? In the time you take 2 pictures with the NEX, you'll be able to take 15 with a K5. (Yes, I own(ed) both, I've sold the NEX5n that I won in a contest.)
01-22-2012, 03:27 AM   #502
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I have no idea what you're talking about, please elaborate.

At current, the lag between two shots is extremely long in EVF camera. Have you ever operated a NEX? In the time you take 2 pictures with the NEX, you'll be able to take 15 with a K5. (Yes, I own(ed) both, I've sold the NEX5n that I won in a contest.)

I think its easier to understand if you just try LV on your DSLR.

Too bad about the NEX.
Its certainly a positive experience on the G3 and GF1 I have, w/o what you saw on NEX
01-22-2012, 03:36 AM   #503
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Last time I checked Quanta made the computers with an Apple brand name on them. Before that it was Foxconn and before that some other ODM. Foxconn still makes the iPhones and I think both do the iPads. They buy from wherever they can get the cheapest labour in China and vicinity. Just like (almost) everyone else. You guys should stop sipping the Kool-aid.
I tried In a polite way to help you from looking like an apple hating ignorant, but it seems you insist on preserving your ignorance. And that Kool-aid comment is pretty rude (I really hate ignorance paired with rudeness)

Apple first made their computers in a garage, then in factories in California. By the mid nineties, they had moved all production to their overseas factories, e.g. in Ireland. (That's where Pentax is now)

Nowadays, they no longer own the assembly factories themselves, and a lot of the components are standard (ie chipsets from intel and other makers). But the fact that they use subcontractors for production doesn't mean that it's not their own products.

And the processors for the iPad and iPhone now come from a 100% apple-owned maker (and so they are sort of closing a circle, since apple once was one if the owners of British ARM - the "mother" of all modern mobile phone processors!)

01-22-2012, 03:43 AM   #504
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I understand that there is a lot of trepidation about the possibility of losing an optical viewfinder. At the same time, you have to remember that this is the kr we are talking about, with a fairly dim, APS-C sized penta-mirror viewfinder. It's not you classic LX viewfinder. Truthfully, an EVF doesn't have to be that good in order to match it in most respects.

At the same time, if Pentax is keeping the k mount (which they didn't have to do), it means that Pentaxians can continue to mount their lenses on this camera -- without the use of a 250 dollar adapter (sold separately of course).

I think it is clear that an optical viewfinder is staying on the penta prism models of camera -- K5/sequel and if a full frame would come, on that one as well. I am glad that Pentax is moving forward with these type of projects. Their tendency has been to hold back until they are dragged into a new arena -- they didn't even launch a dSLR until 2003 -- and that can really kill market share over time. Brighter days are clearly ahead...
01-22-2012, 03:50 AM   #505
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QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
If we're talking about K mount anyway, I can see no advantage of EVF over a hybrid VF other than cost. What could possibly be better? (Assuming they make it work properly, obviously.)



That would be that I mean with hybid VF. I forgot that I'm on the internet, where everything is automatically misunderstood. (Including by me, I must assume.)
One problem with hybrid VF is that the size of OVF will limit size of EVF.
So a TTL hybrid VF on a K-mount camera will most likely be much smaller than EVF only.
Another problem is that OVF in hybrid VF will be darker than OVF only.

So a hybrid VF will have some serious disadvantages compared to OVF or EVF.
01-22-2012, 04:06 AM   #506
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Apple first made their computers in a garage, then in factories in California. By the mid nineties, they had moved all production to their overseas factories, e.g. in Ireland. (That's where Pentax is now)

Steve Jobs was just talented manager and businessman. The charismatic leader of Apple. Good designer.
The seller of cool hyped-up almost useless products with good design. 95% of Jobs's patents are the patents of design.

He invented NOTHING new, but could use another's inventions expertly in proper time....

As for me - I never used Apple products and I have no any need to use it.

Last edited by ogl; 01-22-2012 at 04:50 AM.
01-22-2012, 04:07 AM   #507
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
I think its easier to understand if you just try LV on your DSLR.
You're assuming a owner of a K5 never used the LV???

Shooting using the liveview is slower then shooting using the OVF.
01-22-2012, 04:10 AM   #508
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Steve Jobs was just talented manager and businessman. The charismatic leader of Apple. Good designer.
The seller of cool hyped-up almost useless products with good design. 95% of Jobs's patents are the patents of design.

He invented NOTHING new, but could use another's inventions expertly in proper time....

As for me - I never used Apple products and I have no any need to use it.
Guys, this is a different fight.

Apple was brought into the discussion to emphasize the different products. We don't want Pentax products to turn into Apple products: Pretty but less functional, and performing a lot less then the competition.

Pentax used to be 100% about functionality and ergonomics, bringing in such a 'designer' is making us worry. That a products is prettier, with the loss of functionality doesn't make it better. Our hands cannot shapeshift, there's only a few designs that will work for humans. And Pentax used to NAIL that SPOT-ON.

If it isn't broken, don't fix it. The designs is the LEAST of Pentax worries. They should concentrate on what they are lacking. Not on improving or changing what they already win at. Nobody has ever complained about their ergonomics or design. They did however about their small lens lineup, Lack of FF, inconsistent AF, etc... etc...
01-22-2012, 04:18 AM   #509
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
One problem with hybrid VF is that the size of OVF will limit size of EVF.
So a TTL hybrid VF on a K-mount camera will most likely be much smaller than EVF only.
Another problem is that OVF in hybrid VF will be darker than OVF only.

So a hybrid VF will have some serious disadvantages compared to OVF or EVF.
Not at all. The experience of looking through the finder on my K-5 is very much one of looking at a small image in a large field of black. No reason the EVF couldn't expand over that field.

And why would it need to be darker? Either the screen is transparent enough it doesn't matter or it can slide out of the way when not in use. Either way, not darker.
01-22-2012, 04:37 AM   #510
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i tried sony EVF and i can say the EVF is only better, you don't lose almost nothing but gain:
Very bright and large VF (nothing to do with small and dark aps-c viewfinders)
Stabilized VF (thanks to the sensor SR)
Manual focus aid (peaking, zoom, excellent for all the manual lens you can adapct with the k-mount)
In viewfinder real DOF, effects, istograms, blinking highlights/blacks.
Special features as black and white view or cross processing view.

The feel of OVF is better, but for all the advantages I prefer EVF.
I only hope that the evf is built-in the body and there is no need to purchase it separately.
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