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01-22-2012, 10:52 AM - 1 Like   #556
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Its your difficulty to understand the problem of LV implementation on a dslr like K5, that leads me to think so.
You mean you have never noticed that the mirror goes down first before photo is taken in LV?
On a mirrorless, shutter release is faster than dslr LV implementation on k5, since there is no mirrordown lag.

In fact I am surprised you found that its slow on a current generation mirrorless.
What do you mean by slower anyway?
Fps? Slow down due to Buffer size? Lag between evf and shutter release?

Dude, I own(ed) both a NEX5n and a K5. The NEX has a tragicly slow FPS compared to the K5. I don't care if the mirror does the hokypoky, it's faster. But what you're probably hearing, is the shutter, not the mirror. Try out the mirror-up shooting, you'll hear the exact same sound as when you're using liveview.

But that's not the only thing that's slower:
- The viewfinder of the NEX is slower.
- Buffer size is smaller.
- Manual focussing is slower. (K5's catch-in-focus 100% spot-on and faster then manual focus.)

There's one thing in which the NEX was quicker: It ate batteries like nothing else.

01-22-2012, 10:54 AM   #557
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Hm, the design style of Marc Newsons previous work doesn't mix that well, or should I say doesn't mix at all, with the Pentax Limited style. So they probably have a new lens style as well, which will look really weird on a K5, if it works at all.
01-22-2012, 10:58 AM   #558
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My two cents worth. I got into dslr relatively recently after using p&s over the years. Wanted to do a bit more.

So I get the K5 and a 55-300mm lens. Fine camera. Lens floppy. Had to figure out first how to get focus adjustment right. Focus screen front focussing. After a bunch of fiddling now I can get decent shots out of my stuff.

Compared to a friend. Long time photographer, has a collection of Nikon gear. On his second generation dslr, bought a D5100. Charged batteries, took some shots through his window at some birds across the yard, blown away by the quality.

No matter how the camera looks or the specs, it has to work. I would have paid $100 for someone to set my camera up accurately. Probably will send it in next year for service for that purpose.

This is one of the reasons why mirrorless is desirable for manufacturers. Less moving parts and the calibration can be done by internal routines.

The sensor flaws and other problems with the K5 cost what in sales? It was a potential home run but went foul.

I don't doubt at all that Ricoh is watching this issue like a hawk.
01-22-2012, 11:02 AM   #559
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The suggested lens brings up some questions for me.

40mm... That's not exactly a normal focal length on APS-C. I really like mine, but I'll admit it isn't the most ideal focal length to use for every situation.

So it seems a bit odd they would have a K01 + 40mm kit.

Besides that, the image quality of the 40mm f2.8 is high across the frame and a good choice as a kit lens.

Now 40mm on FF mirrorless would be a perfect kit lens given that most companies try to go wider than normal.


Last edited by sjwaldron; 01-22-2012 at 12:18 PM.
01-22-2012, 11:06 AM   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
That's the thing it doesn't use a mirror but it use the reflection of the glass like with Pepper's ghost .
And what it the light loss of glass...several precent maybe?
The EVF might be dimmer though but it should be enough most likely since it doesn't need to fight against ambient light or anything.

here is a clear drawing.
Home Haunters Peppers Ghost Effect - Haunted House Magazine Articles at HauntedHouse.com

ps. the angle doesn't need to be 90 degrees as long as the light is reflected with the same angle to the glass it's okay.
Here is another site with video.
Science lesson ideas for Halloween
I'm not sure this has any practical use in a camera, as the image is to be reflected into a pentaprism.
01-22-2012, 11:16 AM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Dude, I own(ed) both a NEX5n and a K5. The NEX has a tragicly slow FPS compared to the K5. I don't care if the mirror does the hokypoky, it's faster. But what you're probably hearing, is the shutter, not the mirror. Try out the mirror-up shooting, you'll hear the exact same sound as when you're using liveview.

But that's not the only thing that's slower:
- The viewfinder of the NEX is slower.
- Buffer size is smaller.
- Manual focussing is slower. (K5's catch-in-focus 100% spot-on and faster then manual focus.)

There's one thing in which the NEX was quicker: It ate batteries like nothing else.
Dude, I've told you are very special
Calm down. This is the technical progress. It's not as fast as it should be, but it's a great thing anyway. In 5 years you won't find any kind of SLR in common shop, only in specialized ones. Most people will shoot with better cameras than current SLRs with bad metering and unpredictable PDAF accuracy. Mirrors and pentaprisms will disappear. Electronics is a good thing

Last edited by Emacs; 01-22-2012 at 11:28 AM.
01-22-2012, 11:23 AM   #562
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
My two cents worth. I got into dslr relatively recently after using p&s over the years. Wanted to do a bit more.

So I get the K5 and a 55-300mm lens. Fine camera. Lens floppy. Had to figure out first how to get focus adjustment right. Focus screen front focussing. After a bunch of fiddling now I can get decent shots out of my stuff.

Compared to a friend. Long time photographer, has a collection of Nikon gear. On his second generation dslr, bought a D5100. Charged batteries, took some shots through his window at some birds across the yard, blown away by the quality.

No matter how the camera looks or the specs, it has to work. I would have paid $100 for someone to set my camera up accurately. Probably will send it in next year for service for that purpose.

This is one of the reasons why mirrorless is desirable for manufacturers. Less moving parts and the calibration can be done by internal routines.

The sensor flaws and other problems with the K5 cost what in sales? It was a potential home run but went foul.

I don't doubt at all that Ricoh is watching this issue like a hawk.
I'm not sure that you are capable to evaluate the capability of K-5 body or 55-300mm zoom.
I hope you can get help from some competent person and get your gear in fine condition.
Both K-5 and DA 55-300 zoom are really high quality products with extraordinary low price compared to their capability.
01-22-2012, 11:27 AM   #563
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
The suggested lens brings up some questions for me.

40mm... That's not exactly a normal focal length on APS-C. I really like mine, but I'll admit it isn't the most ideal focal length to use for every situation.

So it seems a bit odd they would have a K01 + 40mm kit. Most companies that have come out with something similar

Besides that, the image quality of the 40mm f2.8 is high across the frame and a good choice as a kit lens.

Now 40mm on FF mirrorless would be a perfect kit lens given that most companies try to go wider than normal.
They had no a choice.
They just can't make good, compact, fast and simple (to be cheap) lens in 28-35mm range.
That's why K-mount for the fresh system is the oddest choice

01-22-2012, 11:35 AM   #564
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Dude, I've told you are very special
You're the one with the delicate features. A normal man can't handle a NEX because of the midget sized controls. I couldn't.


QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
This is the technical progress. It's not as fast as it should be, but it's a great thing anyway. In 5 years you won't find any kind of SLR in common shop, only in specialized ones.
Like I said before. People are assuming DSLR technology will not improve. DSLR have a big headstart, and in five years time, they will improve too. If the EVF have to catch up on OVF then they not only have to solve all the problems, they'll also need to get better then OVF's. So we're not talking about 5 years, more like 15 to 20.


QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Most people will shoot with better cameras than current SLRs
That will be true, even if mirrorless disappears today. Camera's improve, no matter what the type is.


QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Electronics is a good thing
That's what they told us about the electronics in cars too. But the ONLY thing that regularly breaks, needs updates, resetting, re-adjusting, needs repairs are the car's electronics. I've got a two year old Audi A4, and the electronics needs servicing more then the tires. While my 1984 Audi never needs any servicing. And yes, the latter gets driven a lot by my wife.


You'll understand this one: When the US and Russia were in the space-race, the US government invested 16 million dollars in a ballpoint-pen that would write in zero gravity. They did it! They developed a pen that could write upside down. The Russian just used pencils. That's how I see the EVF. It's the 16 million dollar NASA pallpoint pen. It's ludicrously overcomplicated.
01-22-2012, 11:58 AM   #565
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markku: Nonsense.

I understand manufacturing tolerances. Mirrorless is less demanding, hence less costly to manufacture. If Ricoh/Pentax puts out a nice looking well apportioned camera, and fixes their manufacturing so that the tolerances are tighter, the unit will sell. Lack of quality and the ensuing word of mouth will kill them.

This is a consumer market and successful products just work.
01-22-2012, 12:03 PM   #566
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
People are assuming DSLR technology will not improve.
No they're not. But we are well past the obsolescence of film -- that necessitated the SLR design in the first place. The concept is called "Obsolete Before Plateau." Right now we have the best SLRs we've ever -- or will ever have. I'll go ahead and predict the SLR is dead in 5 years. No question.

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
You'll understand this one: When the US and Russia were in the space-race, the US government invested 16 million dollars in a ballpoint-pen that would write in zero gravity. They did it! They developed a pen that could write upside down. The Russian just used pencils. That's how I see the EVF. It's the 16 million dollar NASA pallpoint pen. It's ludicrously overcomplicated.
Then your assessment of the EVF is as dubious as the Soviet pencil myth
01-22-2012, 12:07 PM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
Then your assessment of the EVF is as dubious as the Soviet pencil myth
LOL did you read it yourself? It confirms it.
01-22-2012, 12:08 PM   #568
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
The suggested lens brings up some questions for me.

40mm... That's not exactly a normal focal length on APS-C. I really like mine, but I'll admit it isn't the most ideal focal length to use for every situation.

So it seems a bit odd they would have a K01 + 40mm kit. Most companies that have come out with something similar

Besides that, the image quality of the 40mm f2.8 is high across the frame and a good choice as a kit lens.

Now 40mm on FF mirrorless would be a perfect kit lens given that most companies try to go wider than normal.
2 other ltd's will be re-introduced for the MILC too. Probably the 70mm no doubt.
01-22-2012, 12:14 PM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
LOL did you read it yourself? It confirms it.
No, it doesn't, and the pencils were hazardous.
01-22-2012, 12:19 PM   #570
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Mirrorless is not something I would buy... right now. A nice OVF that actually show almost exactly what you will capture and where focus is is one of the points that made me buy a dSLR to begin with.

But, choice is always good, both for us as consumers and for Ricohpentax as a company. Who knows what will be the "right" tech in 5 years? Look at the state of dSLRs around 1999 - 2000, too expensive and not as good as analog SLRs.
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