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01-23-2012, 12:10 PM - 1 Like   #631
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
This is a serious question.

Will Falk or someone please explain to me why mounting a 52mm diameter lens on a pack of cigarettes is so exciting? And then holding it steady at arms' length?
.
I'll be really disappointed if you have to do that, I expect this camera to have a built in EVF.

01-23-2012, 12:13 PM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I expect the K-01 to sell for around the same as the current price on the K-5, but no one knows yet.

The K-5 will be more like your SLR in operation and controls. The K-01 will be more like your digital point & shoot. Both will allow much better high ISO performance than you are acccustomed to. Be sure to read reviews on both to see the tradeoffs, especially due to auto-focus.

I would guess that it will cost about what the K-r did when it was realeased. Then again if it is replacing the K-r it might be place to compete with the Olympus E-P3, Panasonic G-3 or Sony Nex-5. Then again it could be a little more upscale and be in the Sony Next-7 and Fuji ProX1. We just don't know enough about the camera. Also is there going to be a K-r replacement in the pipeline or what the K-5 replacement is going to be.

Dave
01-23-2012, 12:26 PM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I am wondering how much the kit will cost. The DA40 is not a cheap lens - $340. An entry level camera today should be within $500-$600. That leaves little budget for the body - $260 tops. Which means that either the kit will be expensive and not really that competitive (for entry level market) or that the lens will be of much cheaper build. A 40mm lens is also a very weird choice as a kit lens for an APS-C camera.

Let me put it this way: I've been recommending Pentax cameras among people that usually point to Canon or Nikon. And I had good arguments to bring for my recommendations. But now I am not sure why I should recommend Pentax to anyone wanting to get a higher end camera than a P&S - those prospective customers do not care about the history of the K-mount or about its legacy glass.
Sorry, just not true. The combination of the outstanding specs of the K-x coupled with the availability of using old glass that was stabilized is precisely why I selected Pentax for my return to SLR photography.
01-23-2012, 12:27 PM - 1 Like   #634
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
This is a serious question.

Will Falk or someone please explain to me why mounting a 52mm diameter lens on a pack of cigarettes is so exciting? And then holding it steady at arms' length?

I mean, I think an MX is too small for my hands.
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I'll be really disappointed if you have to do that, I expect this camera to have a built in EVF.
OK - I get the EVF.

I still don't understand the tiny fetish.

01-23-2012, 12:49 PM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Will Falk or someone please explain to me why mounting a 52mm diameter lens on a pack of cigarettes is so exciting?
A serious answer: Don't smoke and photograph
01-23-2012, 12:56 PM   #636
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
OK - I get the EVF.

I still don't understand the tiny fetish.
How tall are you?
01-23-2012, 01:15 PM   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
OK - I get the EVF.

I still don't understand the tiny fetish.
To have the same system for everyday pocketability (thin with pancake that fits in a pocket but with good quality and DOF control) yet large specialized lenses and ergonomic grip (battery grip, huge fast lenses), if needed. And also the shorter flange distance to adapt any lens desired (including rangefinder lenses).
01-23-2012, 01:16 PM   #638
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QuoteOriginally posted by ihasa Quote
Would a Canon hold the iris open until you press the shutter, work with A lenses, or support AF for F / FA lenses? And stabilise all of them? ;P
These minute advantages pale in the face of the advantages of being able to get inexpensive 24/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/2.5 macro, 85/1.8 autofocus lenses for Canon cameras. Each of these costs under $360. What does Pentax offer under this price bar? A 35/2.4 and a 50/1.4. We don't even have 24 or 28 mm lenses at any price range - you need to hit the used market to get those focal lengths.

My point was that if someone wants to buy Canon, you're not going to change their mind by pointing to some manual focus lens bargains. And if they are inclined to use MF lenses, they can do that on their Canon too - Pentax may do that better, but that's not good enough to ignore the advantages of the EF mount platform. Few people buy DSLRs to use exclusively with inexpensive old MF lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
He was talking about availability... as in how easy they are to get.

Dunno much about Canon lenses though so I still don't know if that argument is still valid, heh.
I understand. See above. Canon users are not that much excited about old MF lenses because they have access to inexpensive AF ones. Nikon has their share of inexpensive lenses too. So selling Pentax on account of access to MF bargains isn't going to work well - it might work in some cases, but not many. WR, SR, build quality, ergonomy, sensor performance - those are better arguments. Backward compatibility is overrated though - it means nothing to a new user that wants AF and needs all the technological help he can get to obtain decent pictures without being a great photographer. And it's not that perfect either due to the mount crippling.

These things come up in open discussions where people recommend multiple brands. We are here on a Pentax forum and it is easy to get blinded by one-sided Pentax arguments. But it's worth looking at what other brands have to offer, the same way we would like prospective Canon/Nikon customers to consider what Pentax has to offer. A good starting place is to look at the lens lineups of Canon or Nikon, check their prices, read reviews - you'll get a different perspective on the strengths and weaknesses of the Pentax platform.

01-23-2012, 01:28 PM   #639
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
A serious answer: Don't smoke and photograph

and don't drink
01-23-2012, 01:34 PM   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
These minute advantages pale in the face of the advantages of being able to get inexpensive 24/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/2.5 macro, 85/1.8 autofocus lenses for Canon cameras. Each of these costs under $360.
You'll have to be fair here. The inexpensive Canon lenses you list above here are without stabilisation. If you want stabilisation with all of them, you'll have to have deeper pockets then with Pentax.
01-23-2012, 01:36 PM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
To have the same system for everyday pocketability (thin with pancake that fits in a pocket but with good quality and DOF control) yet large specialized lenses and ergonomic grip (battery grip, huge fast lenses), if needed. And also the shorter flange distance to adapt any lens desired (including rangefinder lenses).
Thank you for the serious answer.

After 641 posts, it appears the real Pentax deviation is the flange distance. An EVF could be added to any body form-factor we already have.

Last edited by monochrome; 01-23-2012 at 02:00 PM.
01-23-2012, 01:43 PM   #642
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Hmmm...We talk about DA35/2.4...Why should I say about Q or 645?
Then your range what wide or standard focal lengths, ect. are isn't correct because you list is for 135format but the DA35mm is for APS-C.
So for example the normal range that you say is 35mm to 70mm is not correct for APS-C, for APS-C that range is 24mm to 47mm.
01-23-2012, 01:53 PM   #643
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Thank you for the serious answer. Through all of this back and forth I haven't yet understood whether the form factor will be closer to dSLR, like the K-r or P&S, like the Q.
First of all it's just a rumour...
And the rumour says it will use a k-mount meaning the thickness of the camera will be the sam as your Kr or K5, ect.
So it won't be something like a Q, Sony NEX, ect. It might be more like the DSLR we have now most likely, something like the Km and Kx in turns of size and handeling.
So still not really pocketable...

The rumour looks to me Pentax will compete with the newer Sony cameras with the translucant mirror with this one.
01-23-2012, 02:03 PM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Thank you for the serious answer. Through all of this back and forth I haven't yet understood whether the form factor will be closer to dSLR, like the K-r or P&S, like the Q.

I carry an XA with me much of the time for just-in-case. When I know I'm going shooting I carry a bag full of SLR or dSLR equipment.

Sounds to me as if you would carry EITHER the small form-factor camera and a pancake (XA analog) or a bag with grip, external flash, OVF attachment, adapter and lense(s) (dSLR analog).

I must be really dense, but where's the advantage? Really. I'm not a troll; not a Pentax-basher - I want this to work.

Other than the ability to mount M39 lenses to a Pentax camera (which technically you can do if you can find a FA43/1.9 Leica-mount) I just don't understand yet the concept for the entire market segment.

Why not just have a better Q AND a K-r when you need it?
You're not dense. You're like me. Why get a tiny mirrorless camera if you're gonna lug around multiple lenses, a tripod, a flash, light-meter and tons of spare batteries too? Who notices that one saved cubic cm and the 75 grams that were stripped?

It's a fad, like the tiny mobile phones a few years ago. It'll pass, just like it did with the cellphones.

I love photography. I would NEVER want to get rid of features for design or portability. Only the best IQ counts. If I could afford a 645D, I would lug that around 24/7 and still love it.
01-23-2012, 02:06 PM   #645
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I must be really dense, but where's the advantage? Really. I'm not a troll; not a Pentax-basher - I want this to work.
The really big advantage probably comes in the future, when there are big powerful mirrorless camera that can share the same lenses as small pocket-sized cameras. Then there probably also be cheaper video cameras that use the same lenses.

Many users in the future will probably start with a small pocket sized MILC, and if they need a bigger and more powerful camera later they can get it within the same system. A mirrorless system can be more flexible than a DSLR system and include a wider range of accessories. But it will take some years before they get there.
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