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01-28-2012, 07:40 PM   #1096
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
You don't think that they could/would design the lenses with the rear of the lens 'quite' recessed into the camera mount?
That's besides the point. Whether new mirrorless K-mount lenses are recessed into the mount or not will not help people who want to mount rangefinder lenses on the mirrorless. What about M-mount, LTM mount, kiev-contax / nikon RF mount, contax G mount?

Reusing the K mount is an incredibly dumb move. In fact, releasing a mirrorless is a dumb move, there's the excellent GXR right there to further develop, and it's such a flexible system too.

01-28-2012, 08:11 PM   #1097
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spare Tire Quote
That's besides the point. Whether new mirrorless K-mount lenses are recessed into the mount or not will not help people who want to mount rangefinder lenses on the mirrorless. What about M-mount, LTM mount, kiev-contax / nikon RF mount, contax G mount?

Reusing the K mount is an incredibly dumb move. In fact, releasing a mirrorless is a dumb move, there's the excellent GXR right there to further develop, and it's such a flexible system too.
Isn't the GXR leica M module already compatible with many mounts? given the GXR unit you mention, it makes even less sense to consider that kind of cross brand compatibility and keep the size small for a new Pentax camera as it already exist, no?

I don't know whether it's dumb...it sounds like a 'parts bin' project (just based off of rumors) and a compromise of size for backwards compatibility especilaly with a limited budget. It's just another niche product with limited developement costs to put out there...make it interesting with unique design (if it is just a bloated spongebob design it wouldn't interest me, but could be appealing in the japanese market, which is what pentax was mainly about anyways....)

P.S: I know the only real advantage of removing the mirror is ro reduce the size of the camera and keeping the K-mount puts a HUGE dent into that plan...but from the rumors it's just another 'parts bin' niche product.
01-28-2012, 08:52 PM   #1098
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It looks as though the optical VF may be finished sooner than later:

MicroOLED promises even greater electronic viewfinder resolution: Digital Photography Review
01-28-2012, 08:55 PM   #1099
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Is Sony currently the only sensor manufacturer with on-sensor A/D conversion? I am not aware of any other manufacturer who does this. It is a pretty amazing achievement.
google and you will find that nowadays everybody do... Sony just have a lot of 'em and lownoise ones.

http://www.edn.com/contents/images/6629479.pdf

01-28-2012, 10:14 PM   #1100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It seems to me Pentax is limiting its appeal to new users by restricting them to only the K-mount. Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Olympus, & Fuji have all opened the door to attract users from other mounts to come use their mirror-less systems with their existing glass, and that has opened the door for new lens sales. I think it is a big mistake. If you want to attract MORE people you need to appeal to more people. I just don't get it. Why limit yourself to a small user group who already own most of the lenses and wont be buying many more? I don't think Pentax wants to be in the lens business. I think they want Sigma to fill all of the holes for them.
Very true. A bit myopic imo to just stay with K-mount.


Quite true, Pentax missed an opportunity to attract a larger user base, which would certainly buy that odd K-mount lens or two over the period of owning the Pentax MILC (if it could use other lenses).
However, its not a totally inane decision.
If we look at NEX, its not a total success to Sony. Who really buys its native lenses?


New users and laymen don't care about M lenses and all the exotics anyway. They want attractive, small, AF and Auto everything, and perceived better quality than their pns (and 'branding' of course).

I just hope that this less generous approach of K-mount only MILC will work out for Pentax.Anyone's guess at this point.
01-28-2012, 10:22 PM   #1101
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
You don't think that they could/would design the lenses with the rear of the lens 'quite' recessed into the camera mount?
That would be what I would do if I was trying to retain compatibility with K-mount lenses. All you would need would be a gap in one of the flanges in the body mount (to give you two normal size flanges and two half size flanges) and then add an extra prong on your "new" lens-mount to match that gap. You would then be able to mount both the mirror less lenses and regular k-mount on the mirror less body while preventing people from mounting the mirror less lenses on a k-mount body (which would damage the mirror). Instead of having to create a complex lens adapter with motor and electrical contacts you could just start with the K-R or K-5 chassis and remove the redundant bits.

As far as the lenses go, you only need enough poking out to mount a lens hood or a filter and maybe a manual focus ring. I'd expect to see a few very compact wide angles, the 40mm and perhaps a short zoom and nothing else. Anything faster or longer would be covered by existing k-mount lenses.

In some ways digital cameras are like a loss-leader, in that you only get a short time to amortise your design and tooling costs on the bodies. The bodies, however, help to sell the lenses which sell over much longer time frames. It doesn't make much sense to make it too easy to mount other manufacturers lenses if that is where the profit is.
01-28-2012, 10:44 PM   #1102
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Isn't the GXR leica M module already compatible with many mounts? given the GXR unit you mention, it makes even less sense to consider that kind of cross brand compatibility and keep the size small for a new Pentax camera as it already exist, no?
M-mount is just compatible with M-mount, and then all the SLR lenses. It isn't compatible with other rangefinder mounts. Most notable is the Contax G, it has some great lenses and they can't be used on the M-mount.
The point is pentax shouldn't have come out with anything in the first place, ricoh was already coming out with a K-mountor.
01-28-2012, 10:52 PM   #1103
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Disagree about missed opportunity in regards to mirrorless mount design,

I feel that going with a K mount on this camera fits in perfectly with the M mount module of the GXR- people who want a Leica on the cheap and something to use an adapter for legacy glass will go with the GXR (more so likely with positive reviews of the mount and potential upcomming changes to the camera body (personally I see Ricoh going with a dedicated Pentax M-K adaptor to arrive before any K mounter)
Sales of the camera and mount will flow into Ricoh-Pentax coffers to develop system further opening up either a new K mounter and/or more Pentax glass.
The K-mount mirrorless will give exposure (excuse the pun ) to Pentaxs' limited lenses and thus DSLRs - WR would be a HUGE point of difference- more so than any comparisons of size with sony/oly/pana. This market will be the ones who start out with kit lenses and stay in system once they get a taste of the Pentax feel and usability/quite a different market to the GXR and one which is a longer term development strategy and a short term cash injection as this 'should' have a pricing around the Kx/Kr which Pentax are critically known for good value in the market.
Can't wait!

01-29-2012, 12:07 AM   #1104
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The reason I haven't bought a mirrorless yet

I really like small cameras I'm a big guy but the smaller they are the more I can carry and also hide from my wife. I have many rangefinders and small film fixed lens cameras.

OK but the reason I don't have a mirrorless digital camera yet is there hasn't been one that takes my K-mount lenses natively. So ugly or not rugged or not I will likely be getting this camera. If it even exists remember this is some pretty weak rumours.

Used my K-7 today and I can say it can serve me for some time yet but it can't make itself smaller.
01-29-2012, 12:39 AM   #1105
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why would pentax release another 40mm lens? the da 40 ltd is good enough in its class ( f2 was more desirable though)
01-29-2012, 01:18 AM   #1106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spare Tire Quote
That's besides the point. Whether new mirrorless K-mount lenses are recessed into the mount or not will not help people who want to mount rangefinder lenses on the mirrorless. What about M-mount, LTM mount, kiev-contax / nikon RF mount, contax G mount?

Reusing the K mount is an incredibly dumb move. In fact, releasing a mirrorless is a dumb move, there's the excellent GXR right there to further develop, and it's such a flexible system too.
Divided niches - right move. Ricoh offers GXR with M-mount, Pentax - mirrorless with new lenses and K-mount.

The fans of manual K and M42 lenses will be happy too...
01-29-2012, 01:53 AM   #1107
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Divided niches - right move. Ricoh offers GXR with M-mount, Pentax - mirrorless with new lenses and K-mount.

The fans of manual K and M42 lenses will be happy too...
That's right. Starting from a minority position in the market, Ricoh/Pentax has to send out the right signals to expand its market share. In particular, we need to know that our investment in K-mount glass is a safe one.
01-29-2012, 02:03 AM   #1108
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I see no reason that the distance between the sensor and lens mount should be wasted now that the mirror is gone. The XS lens could very well do all its focusing internally so it never needs extend. The same can be applied to zoom lenses that are designed with that in mind.
01-29-2012, 02:22 AM   #1109
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I would bet, that the distance won´t be wasted. I expect the following:

XS (xtra-short FFD?) lenses will only work on the mirrorless with a reduced flange focal distance
For the old lenses there will be some kind of extension tube. SDM won´t be a problem.
The question is, if the K-01 or the extension tube has a internal screw-drive to supply full compatibility with the old K-mount lenses. If I read the Pentax statements right, I expect so

Anyway, backwards compatibility is a one way train
01-29-2012, 02:33 AM   #1110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul Ewins Quote
I'd expect to see a few very compact wide angles,
The best you will see is another 15mm, which is nice, but is very compromised and not quite good optically.
So, either old lenses natively or good and compact wide angles.

Last edited by Emacs; 01-29-2012 at 02:56 AM.
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