Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-29-2012, 05:58 AM   #1126
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,862
36MP full frame camera club

QuoteOriginally posted by Kenn100D Quote
I just got info sony's FF SLT Alpha 99 is on prototype at the moment here at Photoword Exhibit in Manila. Just wondering if Pentax will release their FF soon.
Thanks for the news. Didn't see it elsewhere, so I decided to create a thread discussing the forthcoming cameras based on the new Sony 36MP full frame sensor
-> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/173280...mera-club.html

AFAICS, Pentax did not decide to use this sensor, or at least, didn't before Ricoh took over. Given the typical time to develop a new camera body, I guess that even if Ricoh decides to party, it won't be before 2013.

01-29-2012, 06:05 AM   #1127
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 53
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I don't know. I don't kow another vendor who was able to do this.

It is amazing indeed. This is an early article (Feb 2007) describing the technoogy when it was still at the prototype stage. It is an interesting read ...

-> http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol47/pdf/featuring47.pdf
Surprisingly Foveon for all it faults did have on-chip AD-conversion from the beginning. Nothing compared to the Sony's column parallel AD-conversion though.
01-29-2012, 07:08 AM - 1 Like   #1128
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 172
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It seems to me Pentax is limiting its appeal to new users by restricting them to only the K-mount. Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Olympus, & Fuji have all opened the door to attract users from other mounts to come use their mirror-less systems with their existing glass, and that has opened the door for new lens sales. I think it is a big mistake. If you want to attract MORE people you need to appeal to more people.
If Pentax adopted a standard 3rd party mount (eg mft), and continue buying in their sensors, they are left with virtually nothing to distinguish themselves from everyone else. That would lead to a commodity market in which at most a couple of big boys would make money, and Pentax probably wouldn't be one of them. It'd be suicide.

QuoteQuote:
I just don't get it. Why limit yourself to a small user group who already own most of the lenses and wont be buying many more?
Why buy an inter-changeable lens camera and then stick with the kit lens? One of the few things that came out of the recent interviews was Pentax people saying they believe having a good selection of lenses helps sell cameras. You tacitly acknowledge this when you talk of Sony, Samung et al agreeing on a standard mount so they can share their lenses. Pentax are in the enviable position of already having a large range of lenses. That means they don't need to use an open mount. If and when they drop the K-mount, they throw that advantage away.

The Pentax line-up means they can sell expensive cameras to knowledgeable people who also want expensive lenses. They can also sell cheaper cameras to people who will then buy cheap, second-hand glass. My first prime was a 30-year-old fully manual 50mm, bought second-hand for not much. That's how I learned I liked primes. Boy was that a gateway lens. Even if you figure most new camera buyers are not going to follow through with their new hobby, at the time they buy they have pretensions, else they'd get a P&S or a bridge camera instead.

QuoteQuote:
I don't think Pentax wants to be in the lens business. I think they want Sigma to fill all of the holes for them.
I have no idea where they make the most money. I think it's a synergy. I got into Pentax about 18 months ago and I now have around 10 lenses. New lenses are expensive. I'd spent more on lenses within the first six months than I did on my camera. So there is money to be made there. Even if it's true I have my LBA licked and will never buy another lens, when I replace my camera it will probably be for another Pentax that lets me use the lenses I have. If Pentax had adopted a 3rd party mount, my next camera could also be 3rd party. There's no lock-in, no loyalty. If they stick with the K-mount, they have a virtuous circle, with lenses helping to sell cameras and cameras helping to sell lenses, and the line-up of both already having passed critical mass.

QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
Can someone explain why this is better than a new mount with a full k-mount support with a adapter?
It's hard to make a good adapter. Especially if the new mount is all-electronic, so the adapter has to convert electronic signals into mechanical linkages (for aperture and focusing).

QuoteQuote:
This will only appeal to parts of the small amount of old k-users. This will only attract new users if the NEX won't come out with new lenses and if Panasonic and Samsung fails to make good sensors.
See my comments above, about how having a large range of lenses helps sell camera bodies. It's not just to appeal to old K-users.

QuoteQuote:
I see this as an attempt to make the life of k-mount live a few years longer, like the SLT is for a-mount.
I sort-of agree. I do think Pentax will need to retire the K-mount eventually, and switch to an all-electronic, mirrorless mount. I just don't think now is the time. This is partly because, as a company, they need to get past the Hoya years and develop a higher market profile. And it's partly because I still think mirrorless are immature. Electronic viewfinders aren't quite good enough yet. Not for people who care about more than size. I'd give it another 2 or 3 years. Then you can get an OLED viewfinder with fantastic contrast and resolution.

So I expect the K-01 to be a bridge. It was intended to be cheap and easy to design and make, a low-risk option. It's also low-end and cheap to buy. It will fill a gap without cannibalising K-5 sales. It lets Pentax dip their toes into mirrorless technology. As with the Q, it is a learning experience for them. It does not have the new mount plus adapter because the mount would be a big commitment they aren't ready for, and the adapter would be expensive and risky too.
01-29-2012, 07:29 AM   #1129
Veteran Member
pcarfan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,958
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
As for me - I don't want ANY adapter at all. So I think there are tens of thousands of Pentaxian like me....

By the way, we don't have 100% information about new K-01's mount. It seems to me - it's modified K-mount.
I agree...

If the new 40 is indeed not backwards compatible, then that is the single best news I've heard among all these recent rumors. Because that tells me there is something new Pentax is doing with this mount and we can assume the change to make it better. If it is just making the lens element light and making it easy for the focus mechanism to turn direction etc to optimize for CDAF, then it would be backwards compatible. So, I am excited to see what this modified mount do that is so special that they are designing lenses that are not backwards compatible.

I also like not to stick an adapter. What is the advantage of not going with this approach, the simple answer is cost. The cost for developing a new mount (sry! already spent on the mighty Q...being sarcastic here with the 'mighty'), and the cost for developing an adapter (Pentax doesn't even have the resources for the SDM TC that was in the roadmap one time).

But the 59mm depth is large but lets put that in some perspective. The new Canon G1X with much smaller sensor and a fixed zoom is 65mm deep, the new Nikon P7100 with the smaller sensor and fixed zoom is 48mm. K-01 with interchageable lens and an APS-C sensor is not all that out of place.

How many NEW cutomers can be had in this market for mirrorless and what is the COST for getting each new customer. Making it a new mount and increasing the cost gives what to get new customers over existing products? Those who want the smallest size has choices now (Sony, Samsung, 4/3, ricoh) , this is capitalizing on an unfulfilled niche with limited cost. It makes no sense to do the same thing others are doing.


Last edited by pcarfan; 01-29-2012 at 08:40 AM.
01-29-2012, 08:18 AM   #1130
Veteran Member




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 318
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
As for me - I don't want ANY adapter at all. So I think there are tens of thousands of Pentaxian like me....

By the way, we don't have 100% information about new K-01's mount. It seems to me - it's modified K-mount.
I'm one of those ten thousands. I was looking into Olympus m43 as my backup, but will hold out to see the official announcement. If it's anything like I'm imagining, it will be a perfect second camera.

Also, I've come to the conclusion skimming this thread that internet forums really do make an art-form out of the inane.
01-29-2012, 09:27 AM   #1131
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,418
QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
If we look at NEX, its not a total success to Sony. Who really buys its native lenses?

New users and laymen don't care about M lenses and all the exotics anyway. They want attractive, small, AF and Auto everything, and perceived better quality than their pns (and 'branding' of course).

I just hope that this less generous approach of K-mount only MILC will work out for Pentax.Anyone's guess at this point.
You are right in that Sony does not have good E-mount glass available, but has that hurt sales? People are buying them up and using older glass with them. Sony has attracted a lot of new users with this system. Imagine if Pentax had joined M4/3 instead of bringing out the Q. These cameras are building great brand awareness. I see Olympus PENs sold in office supply stores and big boxes. People who never would have thought about Olympus are now aware of the name. Do you see the Q on retail shelves anywhere?

Pentax has limited their market to mostly people who are already familiar with the brand. I don't think this will be a camera that will attract people to the brand. It is a product that gives the ever dwindling group of legacy users something to be happy about.
01-29-2012, 09:38 AM   #1132
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6
Click here

A pic of K-01 was leaked from a Chinese Pentax forum, and here is the translation of the text part

2012 0202

套机发售价格与K-r定位相似
Kit price is set similar to K-r

纯正宾得APS-C mirrorless
A real breed of Pentax APS-C mirrorless

随新机同时发布最薄40mm/f2.8镜头!
Announcement of a new - the thinnest - 40mm f/2.8 lens on the same day

另外的重点是,
将发布最新的roadmap,今年三款新镜计划中,

The other big thing is a new lens roadmap will be revealed. 3 new lenses are developing.

终于有了入门级镜头的好选择!
Finally a good choice of lenses for entry-level.
01-29-2012, 09:44 AM   #1133
Pentaxian
Asahiflex's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Netherlands
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,753
<double post>


Last edited by Asahiflex; 01-29-2012 at 09:50 AM.
01-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #1134
Pentaxian
Asahiflex's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Netherlands
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,753
It seems to be very retro (with the K of the old K series). Nice! Also note the shutter button lock.

01-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #1135
Veteran Member
pcarfan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,958
QuoteOriginally posted by grandnax Quote
Click here

A pic of K-01 was leaked from a Chinese Pentax forum, and here is the translation of the text part

2012 0202

套机发售价格与K-r定位相似
Kit price is set similar to K-r

纯正宾得APS-C mirrorless
A real breed of Pentax APS-C mirrorless

随新机同时发布最薄40mm/f2.8镜头!
Announcement of a new - the thinnest - 40mm f/2.8 lens on the same day

另外的重点是,
将发布最新的roadmap,今年三款新镜计划中,

The other big thing is a new lens roadmap will be revealed. 3 new lenses are developing.

终于有了入门级镜头的好选择!
Finally a good choice of lenses for entry-level.
What a sneak peak, lol!...the effort companies go to keep the buzz going, so what tiny part of the camera is visible there? (looks like a solid part, not toyish at all, cool).

The three lens road map makes sense....any news there regarding OVF/EVF or any VF?

kit at K-r price, is that like US$650?
01-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #1136
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,497
Viral marketing

Feels very similar to the K7 pre-announcement PF frenzy - little bit of infomration, lots of speculation, When the post frequency slows, release a partial image. I expect a fuzzy full image Tuesday and a "leaked" full image day before the real announcement. Wouldn't be surprised to see something real from R/P on World Pentax Day Feb, 4th.

QuoteOriginally posted by grandnax Quote
Click here

A pic of K-01 was leaked from a Chinese Pentax forum, and here is the translation of the text part

2012 0202

套机发售价格与K-r定位相似
Kit price is set similar to K-r

纯正宾得APS-C mirrorless
A real breed of Pentax APS-C mirrorless

随新机同时发布最薄40mm/f2.8镜头!
Announcement of a new - the thinnest - 40mm f/2.8 lens on the same day

另外的重点是,
将发布最新的roadmap,今年三款新镜计划中,

The other big thing is a new lens roadmap will be revealed. 3 new lenses are developing.

终于有了入门级镜头的好选择!
Finally a good choice of lenses for entry-level.
01-29-2012, 09:55 AM   #1137
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 443
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Feels very similar to the K7 pre-announcement PF frenzy - little bit of infomration, lots of speculation, When the post frequency slows, release a partial image. I expect a fuzzy full image Tuesday and a "leaked" full image day before the real announcement. Wouldn't be surprised to see something real from R/P on World Pentax Day Feb, 4th.

If the past history is anything to go on I believe you are correct in your assumptions. Now someone just need to find the invitation to the press release.

If the leaked photo is real the small part don't look ugly.
01-29-2012, 09:57 AM   #1138
Veteran Member
Anvh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,616
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
The DXOMark SNR graph is an equalized playing field. The K20D has slightly better noise performance than the K-7.
And i saying anything different.
I only say that the K7 has more noise but also capture more detail.
The test you're pointing at only looks at noise.
01-29-2012, 09:58 AM   #1139
Veteran Member
Anvh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,616
QuoteOriginally posted by Aku Ankka Quote
The anti-alias filter does not influence noise directly. Having a weaker AA-filter means more risk of aliasing (like color moire), but also allows more slightly more details and reduces the sharpening requirement (thus potentially reduces image noise slightly).
This is often given for the reason why K5 preforms better then the D7000 when it comes to the noise.
So are they wrong?
01-29-2012, 10:04 AM - 1 Like   #1140
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,418
QuoteOriginally posted by Brangdon Quote
If Pentax adopted a standard 3rd party mount (eg mft), and continue buying in their sensors, they are left with virtually nothing to distinguish themselves from everyone else. That would lead to a commodity market in which at most a couple of big boys would make money, and Pentax probably wouldn't be one of them. It'd be suicide.

Why buy an inter-changeable lens camera and then stick with the kit lens? One of the few things that came out of the recent interviews was Pentax people saying they believe having a good selection of lenses helps sell cameras. You tacitly acknowledge this when you talk of Sony, Samung et al agreeing on a standard mount so they can share their lenses. Pentax are in the enviable position of already having a large range of lenses. That means they don't need to use an open mount. If and when they drop the K-mount, they throw that advantage away.
Pentax is already using the same sensors half of the market. Sony makes sensors for everyone but Canon, Samsung, and M4/3. They are already becoming the "me too" commodity. There is no advantage to keeping the K-mount that could not be accomplished by using a high quality adapter. NONE. ZERO. Ship the adapter with the camera. That will keep costs way down. The major cost in adapters is that they are low volume items most of the time. Mass production would bring the cost way down.

QuoteOriginally posted by Brangdon Quote
I have no idea where they make the most money. I think it's a synergy. I got into Pentax about 18 months ago and I now have around 10 lenses. New lenses are expensive. I'd spent more on lenses within the first six months than I did on my camera. So there is money to be made there. Even if it's true I have my LBA licked and will never buy another lens, when I replace my camera it will probably be for another Pentax that lets me use the lenses I have. If Pentax had adopted a 3rd party mount, my next camera could also be 3rd party. There's no lock-in, no loyalty. If they stick with the K-mount, they have a virtuous circle, with lenses helping to sell cameras and cameras helping to sell lenses, and the line-up of both already having passed critical mass.
There's no lock-in, no loyalty Limiting the customers options is one of the things that has been hurting Pentax. They don't have a full line-up. M4/3 has saved Olympus and given Panasonic a HUGE boost in brand recognition among photographers. I don't see how how either of these companies have been hurt. The flexibility of multiple lens options is a huge advantage for serious users who are not brand fanboys. The company that makes the best glass and products is going to make a lot of money. If you don't think Pentax can compete with Olympus and Panasonic when it comes to bodies or lenses, then your right. They should stay out of that market. Sales of the Olympus 12mm f/2 and 45mm f/1.8 have been very strong. All of that legacy glass from other mounts has not hurt either Olympus or Panasonic. It has helped to sell the system.

Right now, the Fuji XP1 will be my first mirror-less camera. If I want to use a 77mm LTD I'll just buy a K-mount adapter. I grew up setting aperture on the manually with a Yashica Lynx 14e , so I don't view it as problem...... I actually kinda of like it.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, k-01, k-01 mirrorless camera, mirrorless, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is the new pentax mirrorless coming out tomorrow? justtakingpics Pentax News and Rumors 12 07-26-2011 06:22 AM
There may not be a 2nd mirrorless camera rustynail925 Pentax News and Rumors 5 06-29-2011 05:36 PM
Mirrorless Camera--Good or Bad? InStitches49 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 15 11-10-2010 10:15 PM
[RUMOR] Canon's First Mirrorless Camera! jct us101 Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 12 09-14-2010 08:08 PM
New Pentax: K-5, K-r and Mirrorless models coming JohnBee Pentax News and Rumors 32 08-08-2010 01:57 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:23 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top