Log on February 2nd at 13 CET Re: K-01

gazonk · 02-01-2012, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Huh, the sensor does the focusing???

Wait... what if the new camera uses the sensor AND normal AF? It may be able to move the sensor enough to focus a shorter lens like the DA40 to its minimal focusing distance!

But it will additionally use normal screw drive and SDM AF to focus longer lenses approximately, and then use the sensor to fine-tune AF. Wouldn't that solve the problem with CDAF and legacy lenses? Just one movement of the lens, and then let the sensor do the rest of the work....

It would also explain why the XS lens can't be used on prior bodies (if that rumor is true)!

Edit: And it would even make old MF lenses AF! Just focus the lens approximately manually (or just leave it at infinity if it's a short lens) and let the sensor do the rest! Hey, maybe even my old Vivitar 24mm/2.8, which is more or less stuck at infinity, may be usable again

parsons · 02-01-2012, 03:37 AM

smc PENTAX-DA 40mmF2.8 XS Specification:

Lens Mount: PENTAX KAF Mount

it the mount is clearly exactly the same, so it must do something to make it exclusive to the K-01. Either recess or do some crazy focusing giggery pokery.

falconeye · 02-01-2012, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by parsons

Either recess or do some crazy focusing giggery pokery.

I'm sure it is neither one nor the other.

Maybe just a question of style, i.e., the XS lens not sold separately. Or something more down to earth, like an automatic lens cap.

Jean Poitiers · 02-01-2012, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by Quicksand

Contrarianism? Masochism? Availability in a variety of bright colors?

I give up.

Bonjour,

Maybe it's "Rooting for the Underdog Syndrome"? (I think that this is why Pentax is relatively popular in France, it's a cultural thing). Or maybe it's a kind of "Stockholm Syndrome" ...

Just kidding here, but IMHO any new "innovative" product by Pentax at this time is good news ... it's positive forward momentum and hopefully the end of stagnation for product development.

The first generation of this product may limited by a lot of constraints (a recent takeover - new strategy orientation/implementation, component shortages - due floods, etc., and heck, it just takes time to get somethings right, etc.), but hopefully the subsequent product evolutions and/or spin-offs will render it more appealing for its market segment(s) ...

Look at the new "Nikon 1" series ... Two similar cameras with cross compatibility in their family - one entry level (J1) without a "viewfinder" and one "upgrade" model (V1) with a viewfinder. Plus they have an adapter for Nikkor lenses, flash, GPS, etc.

Maybe the K-01 is following this scenario and later we'll see a "K-02" with an acceptable "viewfinder", etc. ... who knows.

Allez, c'est demain le grand jour" - Salut, J Frog

Last edited by Jean Poitiers; 02-01-2012 at 05:51 AM.

parsons · 02-01-2012, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

I'm sure it is neither one nor the other.

Maybe just a question of style, i.e., the XS lens not sold separately. Or something more down to earth, like an automatic lens cap.

it is meant to be a 'very sealed' body- maybe there is an automatic lens cap that is sealed also- that would be interesting.

ihasa · 02-01-2012, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by bodhi

the most important piece of equipment is..the viewfinder

The Photographer's Eye - Michael Freeman - YouTube

*Sigh*... the point of the video was that photographs are created with the mind and the eye.... you can do that with a screen just as you can with a viewfinder - he even mentioned the screen of the DSLR he picked up. It was certainly no argument for OVF viewfinders vs LCD screens....

bodhi · 02-01-2012, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by ihasa

*Sigh*... the point of the video was that photographs are created with the mind and the eye.... you can do that with a screen just as you can with a viewfinder - he even mentioned the screen of the DSLR he picked up. It was certainly no argument for OVF viewfinders vs LCD screens....

Could you compose a picture through LCD in a bright sunny day? I mostly not. And even in low light situation is better to use OVF/EVF becasue of a better camera holding a thus reduction of a shake from hands

**Pål Jensen** · 02-01-2012, 06:03 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ihasa

*Sigh*... the point of the video was that photographs are created with the mind and the eye.... you can do that with a screen just as you can with a viewfinder - he even mentioned the screen of the DSLR he picked up. It was certainly no argument for OVF viewfinders vs LCD screens....

Yes it is because when you make the image in your minds eye nothing beats the real thing when it comes to aiming and composing with the camera. Thats why optical viewfinders will never go away on cameras targeted at dedicated photographers.
Remember that an LCD screen, or any other screen fed by a sensor, will never have the contrast range or color gamut of the human eye/brain and an optical finder.

Caat · 02-01-2012, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by parsons

smc PENTAX-DA 40mmF2.8 XS Specification:

Lens Mount: PENTAX KAF Mount

it the mount is clearly exactly the same, so it must do something to make it exclusive to the K-01. Either recess or do some crazy focusing giggery pokery.

it would actually be the "crippled" KAF2 mount if there was no change to the mount as this is the latest known version.

konraDarnok · 02-01-2012, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Yes it is because when you make the image in your minds eye nothing beats the real thing when it comes to aiming and composing with the camera. Thats why optical viewfinders will never go away on cameras targeted at dedicated photographers.
Remember that an LCD screen, or any other screen fed by a sensor, will never have the contrast range or color gamut of the human eye/brain and an optical finder.

Photographs themselves do not have the contrast or color gamut of the human eye -- so what realistic difference does it make? There is something that beats "your minds eye." It's called WYSIWYG, and the best way to get that is with EVFs -- and we can skip the romanticization of gazing into a peephole for aiming.

eddie1960 · 02-01-2012, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Azimuth

Dunno, I don't really want to pay $250 for a pair of lenses and a piece of casing...

there is always this option covering multiple FL

I have one already

**Pål Jensen** · 02-01-2012, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by konraDarnok

Photographs themselves do not have the contrast or color gamut of the human eye -- so what realistic difference does it make? There is something that beats "your minds eye." It's called WYSIWYG, and the best way to get that is with EVFs -- and we can skip the romanticization of gazing into a peephole for aiming.

You are not interested in the photograph when aiming and composing. That is the next step. DSLR's already have an electronic finder as well.
Your argument could be rephrased; Whats the point with a good finder when the photograph will have less quality?. Few would subscribe to such a view.

Ishpuini · 02-01-2012, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

there is always this option covering multiple FL

I have one already

Indeed, just what I wanted to post as well!

Have one and use it for IR photography mainly. Doesn't make the camera any smaller, but if the K-01 will look different, this turret viewfinder will certainly make it look even more different!

Wim

konraDarnok · 02-01-2012, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Your argument could be rephrased; Whats the point with a good finder when the photograph will have less quality?. Few would subscribe to such a view.

No it can't be rephrased that way. I want a "good finder." I just happen to think a "good finder" is as close to WYSIWYG as possible.

Caat · 02-01-2012, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by konraDarnok

No it can't be rephrased that way. I want a "good finder." I just happen to think a "good finder" is as close to WYSIWYG as possible.

But in most cases an EVF is going to be further away in quality from the photograph than an OVF is isn't it?

And an EVF is only WYSIWYG if you only ever view the photo on the EVF. View the photograph on any other device and it's no longer exactly the same (by definition).

02-01-2012, 04:23 AM	#169
Jean Poitiers Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lost in translation ... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 18,076	Pentax Syndrome ... Originally posted by Quicksand Contrarianism? Masochism? Availability in a variety of bright colors? I give up. Bonjour, Maybe it's "Rooting for the Underdog Syndrome"? (I think that this is why Pentax is relatively popular in France, it's a cultural thing). Or maybe it's a kind of "Stockholm Syndrome" ... Just kidding here, but IMHO any new "innovative" product by Pentax at this time is good news ... it's positive forward momentum and hopefully the end of stagnation for product development. The first generation of this product may limited by a lot of constraints (a recent takeover - new strategy orientation/implementation, component shortages - due floods, etc., and heck, it just takes time to get somethings right, etc.), but hopefully the subsequent product evolutions and/or spin-offs will render it more appealing for its market segment(s) ... Look at the new "Nikon 1" series ... Two similar cameras with cross compatibility in their family - one entry level (J1) without a "viewfinder" and one "upgrade" model (V1) with a viewfinder. Plus they have an adapter for Nikkor lenses, flash, GPS, etc. Maybe the K-01 is following this scenario and later we'll see a "K-02" with an acceptable "viewfinder", etc. ... who knows. Allez, c'est demain le grand jour" - Salut, J Frog Last edited by Jean Poitiers; 02-01-2012 at 05:51 AM.

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02-01-2012, 03:18 AM	#166
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Asahiflex Huh, the sensor does the focusing??? Wait... what if the new camera uses the sensor AND normal AF? It may be able to move the sensor enough to focus a shorter lens like the DA40 to its minimal focusing distance! But it will additionally use normal screw drive and SDM AF to focus longer lenses approximately, and then use the sensor to fine-tune AF. Wouldn't that solve the problem with CDAF and legacy lenses? Just one movement of the lens, and then let the sensor do the rest of the work.... It would also explain why the XS lens can't be used on prior bodies (if that rumor is true)! Edit: And it would even make old MF lenses AF! Just focus the lens approximately manually (or just leave it at infinity if it's a short lens) and let the sensor do the rest! Hey, maybe even my old Vivitar 24mm/2.8, which is more or less stuck at infinity, may be usable again

02-01-2012, 03:37 AM	#167
parsons Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 389	smc PENTAX-DA 40mmF2.8 XS Specification: Lens Mount: PENTAX KAF Mount it the mount is clearly exactly the same, so it must do something to make it exclusive to the K-01. Either recess or do some crazy focusing giggery pokery.

02-01-2012, 04:14 AM	#168
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by parsons Either recess or do some crazy focusing giggery pokery. I'm sure it is neither one nor the other. Maybe just a question of style, i.e., the XS lens not sold separately. Or something more down to earth, like an automatic lens cap.

02-01-2012, 04:29 AM	#170
parsons Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 389	Originally posted by falconeye I'm sure it is neither one nor the other. Maybe just a question of style, i.e., the XS lens not sold separately. Or something more down to earth, like an automatic lens cap. it is meant to be a 'very sealed' body- maybe there is an automatic lens cap that is sealed also- that would be interesting.

02-01-2012, 04:44 AM	#171
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	Originally posted by bodhi the most important piece of equipment is..the viewfinder The Photographer's Eye - Michael Freeman - YouTube Sigh... the point of the video was that photographs are created with the mind and the eye.... you can do that with a screen just as you can with a viewfinder - he even mentioned the screen of the DSLR he picked up. It was certainly no argument for OVF viewfinders vs LCD screens....

02-01-2012, 05:06 AM	#172
bodhi Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 61	Originally posted by ihasa Sigh... the point of the video was that photographs are created with the mind and the eye.... you can do that with a screen just as you can with a viewfinder - he even mentioned the screen of the DSLR he picked up. It was certainly no argument for OVF viewfinders vs LCD screens.... Could you compose a picture through LCD in a bright sunny day? I mostly not. And even in low light situation is better to use OVF/EVF becasue of a better camera holding a thus reduction of a shake from hands

02-01-2012, 06:03 AM - 1 Like	#173
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by ihasa Sigh... the point of the video was that photographs are created with the mind and the eye.... you can do that with a screen just as you can with a viewfinder - he even mentioned the screen of the DSLR he picked up. It was certainly no argument for OVF viewfinders vs LCD screens.... Yes it is because when you make the image in your minds eye nothing beats the real thing when it comes to aiming and composing with the camera. Thats why optical viewfinders will never go away on cameras targeted at dedicated photographers. Remember that an LCD screen, or any other screen fed by a sensor, will never have the contrast range or color gamut of the human eye/brain and an optical finder.

02-01-2012, 06:17 AM	#174
Caat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United Kingdom Photos: Albums Posts: 927	Originally posted by parsons smc PENTAX-DA 40mmF2.8 XS Specification: Lens Mount: PENTAX KAF Mount it the mount is clearly exactly the same, so it must do something to make it exclusive to the K-01. Either recess or do some crazy focusing giggery pokery. it would actually be the "crippled" KAF2 mount if there was no change to the mount as this is the latest known version.

02-01-2012, 06:21 AM	#175
konraDarnok Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Albums Posts: 969	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Yes it is because when you make the image in your minds eye nothing beats the real thing when it comes to aiming and composing with the camera. Thats why optical viewfinders will never go away on cameras targeted at dedicated photographers. Remember that an LCD screen, or any other screen fed by a sensor, will never have the contrast range or color gamut of the human eye/brain and an optical finder. Photographs themselves do not have the contrast or color gamut of the human eye -- so what realistic difference does it make? There is something that beats "your minds eye." It's called WYSIWYG, and the best way to get that is with EVFs -- and we can skip the romanticization of gazing into a peephole for aiming.

02-01-2012, 06:32 AM	#176
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Azimuth Dunno, I don't really want to pay $250 for a pair of lenses and a piece of casing... there is always this option covering multiple FL I have one already

02-01-2012, 06:32 AM	#177
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by konraDarnok Photographs themselves do not have the contrast or color gamut of the human eye -- so what realistic difference does it make? There is something that beats "your minds eye." It's called WYSIWYG, and the best way to get that is with EVFs -- and we can skip the romanticization of gazing into a peephole for aiming. You are not interested in the photograph when aiming and composing. That is the next step. DSLR's already have an electronic finder as well. Your argument could be rephrased; Whats the point with a good finder when the photograph will have less quality?. Few would subscribe to such a view.

02-01-2012, 06:35 AM	#178
Ishpuini Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,727	Originally posted by eddie1960 there is always this option covering multiple FL I have one already Indeed, just what I wanted to post as well! Have one and use it for IR photography mainly. Doesn't make the camera any smaller, but if the K-01 will look different, this turret viewfinder will certainly make it look even more different! Wim

02-01-2012, 06:37 AM	#179
konraDarnok Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Albums Posts: 969	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Your argument could be rephrased; Whats the point with a good finder when the photograph will have less quality?. Few would subscribe to such a view. No it can't be rephrased that way. I want a "good finder." I just happen to think a "good finder" is as close to WYSIWYG as possible.

02-01-2012, 06:48 AM	#180
Caat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United Kingdom Photos: Albums Posts: 927	Originally posted by konraDarnok No it can't be rephrased that way. I want a "good finder." I just happen to think a "good finder" is as close to WYSIWYG as possible. But in most cases an EVF is going to be further away in quality from the photograph than an OVF is isn't it? And an EVF is only WYSIWYG if you only ever view the photo on the EVF. View the photograph on any other device and it's no longer exactly the same (by definition).