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03-29-2012, 02:40 PM   #496
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What bothers me the most now is a new coming Pentax/Ricoh pricing policy.
Pentax Forums - K-5, K-01, 645D - The Largest Pentax Camera Forum, News, and Review Site
The future of 560/5.6 is not as bright as it was.

For example, the Sigma 500/4.5 is priced everywhere at $4999. And there is no way to get it brand new for less. I expect the same is going to happen with 560/5.6.

03-29-2012, 03:07 PM   #497
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I don't envy Ricoh trying to rebuild the lost capacities and abilities Hoya stripped from the company. It makes getting things to market much more difficult.
QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Spot on, Eddie. It's not hard to put more money into something (advertising, for example) but replacing lost talent and re-bulding culture is very, very difficult. It takes constant focus, hard work, and often a long time.

I will assume that Ricoh knew at least as much as we think we do and thought themselves prepared for the journey. Hiring back engineers was probably a very good sign, particularly for a Japanese company. A US-based company might hire them back as an interim step then push them back out when the new kids are ready to take over. I don't believe that Ricoh think that way.
QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Frankly, this is not my concern and I sure don't feel sorry for Ricoh-Pentax.

What concerns me are "announcements" of supposedly upcoming lenses and other gear by Pentax (Ricoh-Pentax) and the total lack of a timely follow up after teasing the public.
You may well call that a "business plan" but, in my books, this just doesn't cut it.

It would be interesting to know how many people have already acquired a 500mm-ish lens recently, and from another brand, because they wouldn't/couldn't wait for Pentax to release one.

JP
QuoteOriginally posted by Greyser Quote
What bothers me the most now is a new coming Pentax/Ricoh pricing policy.
Pentax Forums - K-5, K-01, 645D - The Largest Pentax Camera Forum, News, and Review Site
The future of 560/5.6 is not as bright as it was.

For example, the Sigma 500/4.5 is priced everywhere at $4999. And there is no way to get it brand new for less. I expect the same is going to happen with 560/5.6.
Perhaps the hardest thing to restore is reputation. I've said this before and I'll likely say many many times again.

Ricoh has a plan. Ricoh wants to expand the reach and market presence of the Pentax brand, which brand Ricoh believes has a unique history and value. This is and has been readily apparent to me since last October, yet so many posters here continue to look to the past and doubt Ricoh's commitment to Pentax's own announced products - understandable and unfortunate for Ricoh. And wrong for us.

Add up all the small things Ricoh has done to demonstrate this plan, the most recent being dealer-support pricing. (I'll leave the sleuthing to you - the exercise is valuable to confirming your own optimism).

You can't have a ($x,xxx) 560mm lens; FF camera; good service; dealer reps; local workshops; brand-marketing; 5 camera bodies; a full lens roadmap -- you can't have all the things everyone on this Forum asks for all day every day without pricing control. You can't rebuild the brand without profit -- meaning pricing control. You can't get dealers to stock inventory so you can touch before buying, reviewers to review fairly, media to promote -- without advertising support and you can't get that without pricing control.

This is another step in Ricoh's plan - they do indeed have a plan that is unfolding before our very eyes. But we want all our goodies without having to pay CaNikon prices.

I hope everyone who questions PRI today remembers this summer when they're putting down the money for whatever (pick your favorite item) next summer/fall/winter/year.

I've added the ILX-d back into my signature.
03-29-2012, 05:20 PM   #498
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greyser Quote
What bothers me the most now is a new coming Pentax/Ricoh pricing policy.
Pentax Forums - K-5, K-01, 645D - The Largest Pentax Camera Forum, News, and Review Site
The future of 560/5.6 is not as bright as it was.

For example, the Sigma 500/4.5 is priced everywhere at $4999. And there is no way to get it brand new for less. I expect the same is going to happen with 560/5.6.
We know Pentax use a scope design, that's why the 560 is so big.
The sigma 500 is a very different lens, very differently build so not comparable, the 560 use a far simplere design and fewer elements so it's cheaper.
03-29-2012, 05:40 PM   #499
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We just don't know all of that yet, do we?

How "big" is "big" and how cheaper will "cheaper" be ?

JP

03-29-2012, 05:44 PM   #500
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
We know Pentax use a scope design, that's why the 560 is so big.
The sigma 500 is a very different lens, very differently build so not comparable, the 560 use a far simplere design and fewer elements so it's cheaper.
I was not talking about similarity of prices, but how glued to the MSRP the 560/5.6 price would be under new pricing policy.
03-29-2012, 06:07 PM   #501
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We don't know the meaning of the new pricing policy yet, either.
03-29-2012, 07:01 PM   #502
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
We don't know the meaning of the new pricing policy yet, either.
Not really. If K-5 is available now for something below $1000 (with a $300 rebate), it will be hard priced at $1099.
Please note: I bought mine K-5 in Dec. 2010 and have no interest in buying the second one (I may consider a new coming mirror-less options as a second body instead).
03-29-2012, 07:42 PM   #503
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$1,299 with a two week, $300 rebate is still $1,299. $1,099 isnt isn't $1,299 with a permanent $200 rebate, it is $1,099 list. And $1,099 is (if universal pricing is correct as we know it) the lowest price at which the K-5 may be sold, not the fixed price. B&H and Adorama, and maybe Abe's and maybe Amazon itself (stocked and sold by Amazon) will have enough volume to get wholesale pricing that allows them to sell at the lowest price. Other retailers, including many online retailers, won't be able to make a profit at that price. so they'll sell for a higher price and offer personal, local services.

You are worrying about something that hasn't happened yet and likely won't happen to your camera stores.

03-29-2012, 08:14 PM   #504
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
We just don't know all of that yet, do we?

How "big" is "big" and how cheaper will "cheaper" be ?

JP
We know for a fact it's a scope design and you've seen the photos so you can have a good guess how large it is, for the rest we indeed know nothing.
03-29-2012, 09:20 PM   #505
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
We know Pentax use a scope design, that's why the 560 is so big.
The sigma 500 is a very different lens, very differently build so not comparable, the 560 use a far simplere design and fewer elements so it's cheaper.
I'm just curious if anyone knows if the 560 F/5.6 will work on a full frame. It is a long and slender lens. The Canon 400mm F/5.6 is also long and slender and it can work on a FF.

By the way, I really like my Sig 500 F/4.5. It is to bad much of the Pentax market doesn't wish to buy more expensive and larger lenses. (not that I am knocking this new lens) I have shot with Canonites and have had them comment about how good my images are from my Sigma lens and they like the colors. I think Pentax photos have their own slightly different look and they seem similar to Nikon images and a bit different than Canon. I do like the Pentax look.
03-29-2012, 09:53 PM   #506
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QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
I'm just curious if anyone knows if the 560 F/5.6 will work on a full frame. It is a long and slender lens. The Canon 400mm F/5.6 is also long and slender and it can work on a FF.

.
It seemed that the pictures were of a mock up. when we first saw the photos there was a lot of specualtion about features
but as it became clear that the pictures were of a Mock up, I don't think the mean anything. As for image size, the DA nomenclatlure
as been assigned implying APS-C size, but for the most part making assumptions at this point with nothing more than a number and a mockup photo don't get you very far. this all led me to the conclusion that we were pretty early in the development cycle.
03-29-2012, 10:57 PM   #507
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Signs of use on that "mock-up" don't bode well with the idea that it was something made for the fair. We heard years ago on this very forum that Pentax was working on a 560mm (the super telephoto lens of the last roadmap published before this year one), whose development was stopped by Hoya, so I guess they simply took that prototype out of the closet and showed us for the first time. At the same time I think that Ricoh could discard completely that project and do a new one with less price-constrictions.
03-30-2012, 12:20 AM   #508
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560mm lens thoughts

If this is similar to a Pentax telescope, the 75SDHF telescope is a 500mm lens that covers up to 645. I think all of the telescopes cover at least 645. Originally , the Takumar 500mm 4.5 lens had a back half available to put that lens on a 6x7. Humm. Just a thought. Anyway, of course this lens will not be cheap. BTW, the astro- photo guys seems to all agree that the lenses are quite sharp for what they do.
03-30-2012, 12:59 AM   #509
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We need some new rumors, quickly - this thread is the only active rumor thread and it's so full of nothing!
03-30-2012, 01:30 AM   #510
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxus Quote
If this is similar to a Pentax telescope, the 75SDHF telescope is a 500mm lens that covers up to 645. I think all of the telescopes cover at least 645. Originally , the Takumar 500mm 4.5 lens had a back half available to put that lens on a 6x7.
If they can reuse at least parts of the lens to make a version for the 645D, it would makes for more sales...
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