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09-01-2012, 03:50 PM   #796
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
The only lenses with this type are

EF 400mm 4.0 DO IS USM (7034A004/7034A009) --> 6.220,00 € (about $7,800; with an exchange rate of 1:1.25)
AF-S VR 200-400mm 4.0G IF-ED II (JAA809DA) --> 6.199,00 €

One stop more light with similar reach:

EF 600mm 4.0 L IS II USM (5125B005) --> 11.999,00 €
EF 600mm 4.0 L IS USM (2534A003/2534A009) --> 10.525,43 €
AF-S VR 500mm 4.0G ED (JAA529DA) --> 7.499,00 €
AF-S VR 600mm 4.0G ED (JAA530DA) --> 8.555,08 €
IS, lots of elements...

09-01-2012, 04:08 PM   #797
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
IS, lots of elements...

They cost a fortune without IS too. Compare it to 300/2.8 lenses....

Anyway, the smaller diametre elements cost surprisingly little. However, much depends on production volume. Then theres developing cost. Production cost too; Pentax may not have the infrastructure to make long telephotos in a effective manner compared ti Nikon and Canon (I'm sure the Pentax 600/4 was assembled by a single person). Then theres profit margins. There are simply too many variables to guess price from front element diametre and you can't rest asure that this is not how the manufacturers calculate their lenses...

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 09-01-2012 at 06:33 PM.
09-01-2012, 06:24 PM   #798
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
It is then sad of course (for Sony) that a recent magazine test (Colorfoto?) tested the Sony 500 far behind the Sigma 500 (in IQ). I have some reservations with their testing methodology (e.g., cross system comparisons), but the results have been too clear to be ignored. It would be sad if the Sony 500 would at the same time be the most expensive AND the worst performing 500 offer. Anyway, it made me curious enough to watch the topic ...
Wow that is unacceptable when you pay such a hi price.
09-02-2012, 01:12 PM   #799
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
They cost a fortune without IS too. Compare it to 300/2.8 lenses....

Anyway, the smaller diametre elements cost surprisingly little. However, much depends on production volume. Then theres developing cost. Production cost too; Pentax may not have the infrastructure to make long telephotos in a effective manner compared ti Nikon and Canon (I'm sure the Pentax 600/4 was assembled by a single person). Then theres profit margins. There are simply too many variables to guess price from front element diametre and you can't rest asure that this is not how the manufacturers calculate their lenses...
How about you really compare for yourself. 300/2.8 is a lot larger than 560/5.6, plus, even the non-IS lenses have a way more elements than what Pentax is aiming for. A simple lens design. Not 12+ elements.

Look at the Canon 400/5.6 for example.
Canon 400mm f/5.6L USM Autofocus Lens 2526A004 B&H Photo Video

~1400$

Sure, it's a 72mm diameter front lens. What also matters is this: Groups/Elements 6/7.

Compare it to the 400/4 IS: 13/17 groups/elements. A lot more glass, a lot more production steps required.


Now, a 560/5.6 would have a 100mm front lens.
Let's do some simple calculation: assume the 400/5.6 design, but with a larger front element.

72mm * 1,39 = 100mm (roughly :P).

1400$ * 1.39 = 1946$

So far, that's maybe a 400/4, sure. So, let's change the lens calculation a little, increase the focal length -- I can't see reasons for huge price increases beyond ~2500$.

Simple lens design reduces costs.


Last edited by LamyTax; 09-03-2012 at 01:10 AM.
09-04-2012, 02:50 AM   #800
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QuoteQuote:
[...] The front element is still going to be expensive. [...]
IIRC, the cost of the front lens of the FA* 300/2.8 was/is about 500€ as replacement.

QuoteQuote:
The only lenses with this type are [...]
The 560/5.6 will be lighter and less expensive due to the telescope type design. However, this will also result in a relatively large body. The overall size can be reduced for transport. The estimated date of availability seems to be delayed until spring/summer 2013. The same is true for the teleconverter.
09-04-2012, 02:59 PM   #801
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Haven't seen it, could have missed it, but RiceHigh has the 560 as a special order item at $3200 list. Says it will have "simplified" WR. He based part of it on a post here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/197377-pentax-da-560-5...e-i-think.html But where is that list price and special order part coming from?
09-04-2012, 03:03 PM   #802
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Haven't seen it, could have missed it, but RiceHigh has the 560 as a special order item at $3200 list. Says it will have "simplified" WR. He based part of it on a post here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/197377-pentax-da-560-5...e-i-think.html But where is that list price and special order part coming from?
Why do I always facepalm when I look at his blog.
Sure, Pentax develops a "budget" long lens and then puts in electronics for astro photography nearly nobody needs or uses to increase the price.

I want the same stuff RiceHigh is smoking. Don't say it's rice. I've tried.
09-10-2012, 11:24 AM   #803
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QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
Stefan, stop talking BS and don't put words in my mouth...your english reading is even worse than your dutch.
I`m well aware of the difference between weather resistance or weather/waterproof. You live in Holland and unless you don`t ever go out, you must know that rain comes in all kinds of levels.
WR is for all, the EX I thrust upto a certain level and that`s way more than your average consumerclass lenses. Especially when it has internal focus.
How can i put words in your mouth when i simply quote you?

Funny how you resort to personally offend me and still get it wrong, didn't you read what i wrote or is your English even worse then you say mine is?
To correct you, WR (weather resistance) is not for all weather since it's only RESISTANT for all weather pentax has AW (all weather) sealing so it seems you clearly don't know the difference between restiance and proof so who is talking BS?

How can i tell btw what you mean with the level of rain when you simply call it rain?


Last edited by Anvh; 09-10-2012 at 11:40 AM.
09-10-2012, 11:53 AM   #804
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You`re still not reading....
09-10-2012, 01:12 PM   #805
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You should stop blaming me for your own mistakes, you're the one twisting your own words constantly.

You clearly said this.
QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
The sigma EX series is also not afraid of rain.
Then you say you didn't mean they are WR but this is preciesly what WR means.

Then you said this.
QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
You live in Holland and unless you don`t ever go out, you must know that rain comes in all kinds of levels.
Hey if you meant light rain the first time then it's your (edited) fault for not saying so.

Then this.
QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
WR is for all, the EX I thrust upto a certain level and that`s way more than your average consumerclass lenses.
This incorrect.
WR is not for all weather or rain since they arent weather proof, Weather Resistance means that the can take a rain shower but they aren't sealed enough to get soaking wet, All Weather lenses are though.
So if the EX lenses can take some rain than they are WR since they can resist the rain (rain=weather resist=resistance *bells ringing*) how much WR is another story.


Should i say it in Dutch maybe that's easier for you?

Last edited by Blue; 09-10-2012 at 02:45 PM. Reason: abusive language
09-10-2012, 01:21 PM - 4 Likes   #806
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Maybe all this back and forth stuff could be via PM so the rest of us can read about and discuss the topic at hand without wading through this meaningless bickering.
09-10-2012, 02:09 PM   #807
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
You should stop blaming me for your own mistakes, you're the one twisting your own words constantly.

You clearly said this.

Then you say you didn't mean they are WR but this is preciesly what WR means.

Then you said this.

Hey if you meant light rain the first time then it's your own damn fault for not saying so.

Then this.

This incorrect.
WR is not for all weather or rain since they arent weather proof, Weather Resistance means that the can take a rain shower but they aren't sealed enough to get soaking wet, All Weather lenses are though.
So if the EX lenses can take some rain than they are WR since they can resist the rain (rain=weather resist=resistance *bells ringing*) how much WR is another story.


Should i say it in Dutch maybe that's easier for you?
Lol...are you a teacher for profession? You sure sound like one.
I said what I said and how you (mis)interpeted I don`t care. I wasn`t even talking to you.

We`ve had this kind of tiring conversations before and it ends now. Never tought I`d be using that button.
I`m sorry for this, people.
09-10-2012, 02:17 PM   #808
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By the way, I was looking at the 560mm's picture and somehow I was reminded of this:
09-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #809
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
Maybe all this back and forth stuff could be via PM so the rest of us can read about and discuss the topic at hand without wading through this meaningless bickering.
I am all for that and you get a like for saying it out loud.
09-10-2012, 03:02 PM   #810
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Frankly, a 560mm f5.6 being announced at Photokina impacts my life about as much as a new Lamborghini being announced at the Geneva Motor Show.
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