Pentax 560mm ?

**Pål Jensen** · 08-31-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

essentially this looks to be a telescope type design, 2-2500 would be in the right zone for that given a telescope of this type would be about half that price but simpler to build with no af or electronics to concern you

I think you are too optimistic regarding price. The front element is still going to be expensive. I'll be pleasantly surprised at anything below $4000....

TenZ.NL · 08-31-2012, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I think you are too optimistic regarding price. The front element is still going to be expensive. I'll be pleasantly surprised at anything below $4000....

That would be a no-go, at least for me. It`s too much in the price-range of the sigma 500mm F4.5. I`ll rather spend some more for allmost an extra stop more light than 60mm longer FL and WR. The sigma EX series is also not afraid of rain.

I think it would be a mistake to put the DA560 so close to the 500 F4.5

dane.dawg · 08-31-2012, 04:19 PM

Most of the sigma EX line is not weather resistant..

TenZ.NL · 08-31-2012, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by dane.dawg

Most of the sigma EX line is not weather resistant..

I didn`t said the EX series is WR...

LamyTax · 09-01-2012, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I think you are too optimistic regarding price. The front element is still going to be expensive. I'll be pleasantly surprised at anything below $4000....

Compare it with a 300/4. 75mm vs. 100 -- that is certainly not 4x more

.

falconeye · 09-01-2012, 02:39 AM

In my blog, you find a formula how lens price scales with front lens element diameter. Derived from empirical data.

It is in http://falklumo.blogspot.de/2011/04/hypothetical-pentax-dfa-500mm-f56-edif.html

and the formula is

Price [MSRP in USD] = D[mm]^3.26 /1177 (typical error is +/- 25%, street price shouldn't be higher)
D is the diameter = focal length / f-stop number.

However, this formula is for highly corrected 10+ element lenses, not the expected fairly low complexity 560/5.6 with D=100. BTW, the formula yields 2800 USD. I expect the lens to come out cheaper though, around 2400 USD with 500 USD error margin. But this was before recent insane price hikes from various Japanese vendors.

Anvh · 09-01-2012, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by TenZ.NL

I didn`t said the EX series is WR...

Well you did or can you explain what the differnce is between what you said and WR

Originally posted by TenZ.NL

The sigma EX series is also not afraid of rain.

WR means the lenses arent Weather Proof just Resistance so more then normal lenses would, and you say the EX is not afraid for the rain ALSO so it seems you mean they are also WR.

LamyTax · 09-01-2012, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

In my blog, you find a formula how lens price scales with front lens element diameter. Derived from empirical data.

It is in Falk Lumo: A hypothetical Pentax DFA* 500mm F5.6 ED(IF) SDMii

and the formula is

Price [MSRP in USD] = D[mm]^3.26 /1177 (typical error is +/- 25%, street price shouldn't be higher)
D is the diameter = focal length / f-stop number.

However, this formula is for highly corrected 10+ element lenses, not the expected fairly low complexity 560/5.6 with D=100. BTW, the formula yields 2800 USD. I expect the lens to come out cheaper though, around 2400 USD with 500 USD error margin. But this was before recent insane price hikes from various Japanese vendors.

That also happens to be within what the more concrete rumours say.
It also makes sense for the system.

RonHendriks1966 · 09-01-2012, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

In my blog, you find a formula how lens price scales with front lens element diameter. Derived from empirical data.

It is in Falk Lumo: A hypothetical Pentax DFA* 500mm F5.6 ED(IF) SDMii

and the formula is

Price [MSRP in USD] = D[mm]^3.26 /1177 (typical error is +/- 25%, street price shouldn't be higher)
D is the diameter = focal length / f-stop number.

However, this formula is for highly corrected 10+ element lenses, not the expected fairly low complexity 560/5.6 with D=100. BTW, the formula yields 2800 USD. I expect the lens to come out cheaper though, around 2400 USD with 500 USD error margin. But this was before recent insane price hikes from various Japanese vendors.

Well this lens should be 1.999 euro to get any ground and attrackt new users for birding and stuff to the Pentax brand. No idea if this is possible. Sony's 500mm/f4 costs 12.999 euro overhere and I don't think they sell more then a handfull of them in The Netherlands. It has to outperform the sigma longzooms in IQ, but it also has to compete with these lenses in the wallets from hobbyphotographers.

falconeye · 09-01-2012, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Sony's 500mm/f4 ... has to outperform the sigma longzooms in IQ

It is then sad of course (for Sony) that a recent magazine test (Colorfoto?) tested the Sony 500 far behind the Sigma 500 (in IQ). I have some reservations with their testing methodology (e.g., cross system comparisons), but the results have been too clear to be ignored. It would be sad if the Sony 500 would at the same time be the most expensive AND the worst performing 500 offer. Anyway, it made me curious enough to watch the topic ...

LamyTax · 09-01-2012, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

It is then sad of course (for Sony) that a recent magazine test (Colorfoto?) tested the Sony 500 far behind the Sigma 500 (in IQ). I have some reservations with their testing methodology (e.g., cross system comparisons), but the results have been too clear to be ignored. It would be sad if the Sony 500 would at the same time be the most expensive AND the worst performing 500 offer. Anyway, it made me curious enough to watch the topic ...

Could have been a bad sample. Not that this should happen at this price class, but it does.

thibs · 09-01-2012, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by LamyTax

Could have been a bad sample. Not that this should happen at this price class, but it does.

Frankly, at that price it should be manually tested for optical QC (and mechanical QC too of course).
It's a Leica price with a Lomo glass

**Pål Jensen** · 09-01-2012, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

However, this formula is for highly corrected 10+ element lenses, not the expected fairly low complexity 560/5.6 with D=100. BTW, the formula yields 2800 USD.

Do you know any lens from the camera manufacturers (as oposed to third party vendors) with such a large front element that cost only $2800?

TenZ.NL · 09-01-2012, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

Well you did or can you explain what the differnce is between what you said and WR

WR means the lenses arent Weather Proof just Resistance so more then normal lenses would, and you say the EX is not afraid for the rain ALSO so it seems you mean they are also WR.

Stefan, (edited by moderator) don't put words in my mouth... (edited by moderator)
I`m well aware of the difference between weather resistance or weather/waterproof. You live in Holland and unless you don`t ever go out, you must know that rain comes in all kinds of levels.
WR is for all, the EX I thrust upto a certain level and that`s way more than your average consumerclass lenses. Especially when it has internal focus.

beholder3 · 09-01-2012, 02:41 PM

[[deleted]

09-01-2012, 02:39 AM	#786
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	In my blog, you find a formula how lens price scales with front lens element diameter. Derived from empirical data. It is in http://falklumo.blogspot.de/2011/04/hypothetical-pentax-dfa-500mm-f56-edif.html and the formula is Price [MSRP in USD] = D[mm]^3.26 /1177 (typical error is +/- 25%, street price shouldn't be higher) D is the diameter = focal length / f-stop number. However, this formula is for highly corrected 10+ element lenses, not the expected fairly low complexity 560/5.6 with D=100. BTW, the formula yields 2800 USD. I expect the lens to come out cheaper though, around 2400 USD with 500 USD error margin. But this was before recent insane price hikes from various Japanese vendors. Last edited by falconeye; 09-01-2012 at 02:48 AM.

09-01-2012, 12:22 PM	#794
TenZ.NL Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Below sealevel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,100	Originally posted by Anvh Well you did or can you explain what the differnce is between what you said and WR WR means the lenses arent Weather Proof just Resistance so more then normal lenses would, and you say the EX is not afraid for the rain ALSO so it seems you mean they are also WR. Stefan, (edited by moderator) don't put words in my mouth... (edited by moderator) I`m well aware of the difference between weather resistance or weather/waterproof. You live in Holland and unless you don`t ever go out, you must know that rain comes in all kinds of levels. WR is for all, the EX I thrust upto a certain level and that`s way more than your average consumerclass lenses. Especially when it has internal focus. Last edited by Blue; 09-27-2012 at 04:04 PM. Reason: inflammatory

09-01-2012, 02:41 PM	#795
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	[[deleted] Last edited by beholder3; 08-11-2013 at 07:21 AM. Reason: [deleted]

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08-31-2012, 10:28 AM	#781
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by eddie1960 essentially this looks to be a telescope type design, 2-2500 would be in the right zone for that given a telescope of this type would be about half that price but simpler to build with no af or electronics to concern you I think you are too optimistic regarding price. The front element is still going to be expensive. I'll be pleasantly surprised at anything below $4000....

08-31-2012, 03:08 PM	#782
TenZ.NL Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Below sealevel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,100	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I think you are too optimistic regarding price. The front element is still going to be expensive. I'll be pleasantly surprised at anything below $4000.... That would be a no-go, at least for me. It`s too much in the price-range of the sigma 500mm F4.5. I`ll rather spend some more for allmost an extra stop more light than 60mm longer FL and WR. The sigma EX series is also not afraid of rain. I think it would be a mistake to put the DA560 so close to the 500 F4.5

08-31-2012, 04:19 PM	#783
dane.dawg Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,436	Most of the sigma EX line is not weather resistant..

08-31-2012, 11:52 PM	#784
TenZ.NL Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Below sealevel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,100	Originally posted by dane.dawg Most of the sigma EX line is not weather resistant.. I didn`t said the EX series is WR...

09-01-2012, 01:52 AM	#785
LamyTax Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 376	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I think you are too optimistic regarding price. The front element is still going to be expensive. I'll be pleasantly surprised at anything below $4000.... Compare it with a 300/4. 75mm vs. 100 -- that is certainly not 4x more .

09-01-2012, 02:56 AM	#787
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by TenZ.NL I didn`t said the EX series is WR... Well you did or can you explain what the differnce is between what you said and WR Originally posted by TenZ.NL The sigma EX series is also not afraid of rain. WR means the lenses arent Weather Proof just Resistance so more then normal lenses would, and you say the EX is not afraid for the rain ALSO so it seems you mean they are also WR.

09-01-2012, 03:05 AM	#788
LamyTax Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 376	Originally posted by falconeye In my blog, you find a formula how lens price scales with front lens element diameter. Derived from empirical data. It is in Falk Lumo: A hypothetical Pentax DFA* 500mm F5.6 ED(IF) SDMii and the formula is Price [MSRP in USD] = D[mm]^3.26 /1177 (typical error is +/- 25%, street price shouldn't be higher) D is the diameter = focal length / f-stop number. However, this formula is for highly corrected 10+ element lenses, not the expected fairly low complexity 560/5.6 with D=100. BTW, the formula yields 2800 USD. I expect the lens to come out cheaper though, around 2400 USD with 500 USD error margin. But this was before recent insane price hikes from various Japanese vendors. That also happens to be within what the more concrete rumours say. It also makes sense for the system.

09-01-2012, 04:31 AM	#789
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by falconeye In my blog, you find a formula how lens price scales with front lens element diameter. Derived from empirical data. It is in Falk Lumo: A hypothetical Pentax DFA* 500mm F5.6 ED(IF) SDMii and the formula is Price [MSRP in USD] = D[mm]^3.26 /1177 (typical error is +/- 25%, street price shouldn't be higher) D is the diameter = focal length / f-stop number. However, this formula is for highly corrected 10+ element lenses, not the expected fairly low complexity 560/5.6 with D=100. BTW, the formula yields 2800 USD. I expect the lens to come out cheaper though, around 2400 USD with 500 USD error margin. But this was before recent insane price hikes from various Japanese vendors. Well this lens should be 1.999 euro to get any ground and attrackt new users for birding and stuff to the Pentax brand. No idea if this is possible. Sony's 500mm/f4 costs 12.999 euro overhere and I don't think they sell more then a handfull of them in The Netherlands. It has to outperform the sigma longzooms in IQ, but it also has to compete with these lenses in the wallets from hobbyphotographers.

09-01-2012, 05:03 AM	#790
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Sony's 500mm/f4 ... has to outperform the sigma longzooms in IQ It is then sad of course (for Sony) that a recent magazine test (Colorfoto?) tested the Sony 500 far behind the Sigma 500 (in IQ). I have some reservations with their testing methodology (e.g., cross system comparisons), but the results have been too clear to be ignored. It would be sad if the Sony 500 would at the same time be the most expensive AND the worst performing 500 offer. Anyway, it made me curious enough to watch the topic ...

09-01-2012, 07:54 AM	#791
LamyTax Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 376	Originally posted by falconeye It is then sad of course (for Sony) that a recent magazine test (Colorfoto?) tested the Sony 500 far behind the Sigma 500 (in IQ). I have some reservations with their testing methodology (e.g., cross system comparisons), but the results have been too clear to be ignored. It would be sad if the Sony 500 would at the same time be the most expensive AND the worst performing 500 offer. Anyway, it made me curious enough to watch the topic ... Could have been a bad sample. Not that this should happen at this price class, but it does.

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09-01-2012, 11:14 AM	#792
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by LamyTax Could have been a bad sample. Not that this should happen at this price class, but it does. Frankly, at that price it should be manually tested for optical QC (and mechanical QC too of course). It's a Leica price with a Lomo glass

09-01-2012, 11:20 AM	#793
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by falconeye However, this formula is for highly corrected 10+ element lenses, not the expected fairly low complexity 560/5.6 with D=100. BTW, the formula yields 2800 USD. Do you know any lens from the camera manufacturers (as oposed to third party vendors) with such a large front element that cost only $2800?