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12-31-2007, 09:25 PM   #1
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Lets talk about the next-next Pentax

Well all you lucky Pentaxian, it's almost time to hear about the new entry and pro-sumer level DSLR's from Pentax.

Instead of speculating on the K20D, let's get a great list of what we'd like in a Semi-Pro body priced in around $2000.

Here is what I consider a great set that Pentax has the capability of producing come Christmas 2008.

SENSOR:
18+ Megapixel High Resolution CMOS sensor
Advanced sensor technology for truer colours and lower noise
Maybe Full-Frame, but it most likely will not have this just yet!
Advanced Shake Reduction up to 6 stops and smarter

BODY:
Weather sealed
Magnesium Build or an another alloy
Buttons and dials for all camera settings on body (ISO, WB, AF burst ratio)
PC sync port
Vertical grip built right into the whole deal
100% viewfinder with adjustable level of magnification
Live histogram in the viewfinder
Built-in wireless PTTL transmitter and focus assist lamp without pop-up flash

DRIVE SYSTEM:
New AF system with 3D tracking
Continuous capture at 8 FPS and adjustable down to 3 FPS
Live View with contrast control focusing
11 main Auto Focus points with multiple assist points

Extra Goodies:
Intuitive menu system that can be arranged to users liking
Extra settings for multiple AF adjustments
New LI-ION battery capable of 2000 shots on a full charge and low drain in cold/hot temps
Sleek style and make it feel like a luxury camera just to make others drool!

Feel free to add onto this or even change some things around. I'll hopefully send a good list off to Pentax with a copy of this thread. Oh, and they may read this so lets be reasonable with our dreams

12-31-2007, 09:45 PM   #2
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Don't forget to ask for restoration of the aperture simulator to the mount. Buyers of this camera are much more likely to have K and M legacy glass than the new buyers attracted to the K10D/K100D.
12-31-2007, 11:51 PM   #3
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Your wishlist are mostly about features and performance aspects that other DSLR makers have now but not Pentax and indeed that's what I have been asking for but then you just don't agree with me from time to time.


QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Well all you lucky Pentaxian, it's almost time to hear about the new entry and pro-sumer level DSLR's from Pentax.

Instead of speculating on the K20D, let's get a great list of what we'd like in a Semi-Pro body priced in around $2000.

Here is what I consider a great set that Pentax has the capability of producing come Christmas 2008.

SENSOR:
18+ Megapixel High Resolution CMOS sensor
Advanced sensor technology for truer colours and lower noise
Maybe Full-Frame, but it most likely will not have this just yet!
Advanced Shake Reduction up to 6 stops and smarter

BODY:
Weather sealed
Magnesium Build or an another alloy
Buttons and dials for all camera settings on body (ISO, WB, AF burst ratio)
PC sync port
Vertical grip built right into the whole deal
100% viewfinder with adjustable level of magnification
Live histogram in the viewfinder
Built-in wireless PTTL transmitter and focus assist lamp without pop-up flash

DRIVE SYSTEM:
New AF system with 3D tracking
Continuous capture at 8 FPS and adjustable down to 3 FPS
Live View with contrast control focusing
11 main Auto Focus points with multiple assist points

Extra Goodies:
Intuitive menu system that can be arranged to users liking
Extra settings for multiple AF adjustments
New LI-ION battery capable of 2000 shots on a full charge and low drain in cold/hot temps
Sleek style and make it feel like a luxury camera just to make others drool!

Feel free to add onto this or even change some things around. I'll hopefully send a good list off to Pentax with a copy of this thread. Oh, and they may read this so lets be reasonable with our dreams
12-31-2007, 11:55 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesk8752 Quote
Don't forget to ask for restoration of the aperture simulator to the mount. Buyers of this camera are much more likely to have K and M legacy glass than the new buyers attracted to the K10D/K100D.
I bet only the K1D will have this even if Pentax decide to re-introduce this later on, as the K20D still lacks it.

If I were Pentax, I just introduce a super simple DSLR, just like a K1000 but with also AF and basic AE modes, but re-include full spec K-mount and legacy TTL support, this body must be selling like hot cake - at least for the millions of old K-mount users like us over the world.

They simply can call this new super simple and cheap DSLR to be K1000D, I'm sure it will sell as well as the K1000 used to be.

01-01-2008, 12:15 AM   #5
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It's hard to think about the next next camera when K20D specs is still not released. Once I learn everything about K20D, I will know how greedy I would be for the next higher specs camera
01-01-2008, 12:17 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Well all you lucky Pentaxian, it's almost time to hear about the new entry and pro-sumer level DSLR's from Pentax.

Instead of speculating on the K20D, let's get a great list of what we'd like in a Semi-Pro body priced in around $2000.

Here is what I consider a great set that Pentax has the capability of producing come Christmas 2008.

SENSOR:
18+ Megapixel High Resolution CMOS sensor
Advanced sensor technology for truer colours and lower noise
Maybe Full-Frame, but it most likely will not have this just yet!
Advanced Shake Reduction up to 6 stops and smarter

A top issue here is increasing the dynamic range. We used to call this I think latitude in the film days. The ability to deliver a usable photo of some one standing part way under a tree during a picnic..... on a bright sunny day...

Full frame is not a high priority of mine. I care less about innards than delivering results.
While some argue that FF is a requirement to some of the things you mention, I don't care. if there is any frame at all---or what's inside the box, if what I want comes out of the box.

Shake reduction wouldn't be an issue if the ISO levels were increased---something I think
is more important. If I can use an ISO of 10,000, I'm not sure I need shake reduction.

Program modes that move the ISO to protect time and aperture are good things.




BODY:
Weather sealed
Magnesium Build or an another alloy
Buttons and dials for all camera settings on body (ISO, WB, AF burst ratio)
PC sync port
Vertical grip built right into the whole deal
100% viewfinder with adjustable level of magnification
Live histogram in the viewfinder
Built-in wireless PTTL transmitter and focus assist lamp without pop-up flash

I don't know if metal is better---but I like the classic look of the ZX-5

As for controls, having some stuff under the FN key and some under the Menu Key makes no sense. the stuff under the function key is easier to use, but setting the WB and ISO
the way it worked on an *istD was easier to learn than the K10D method, though I understand with the auto ISO which is a good thing---it's hard to set the auto range.

One thing I think is critical for (and I saw it on something) --- is support for multiple
USER configurations which can be saved. And I don't need to be limited to manual switching of user profiles. There is a way I would like the camera to profile itself if a flash is going
to go off, There is a way I want the camera to behave if I have a particular lens attached, etc. With this goes 'smart lens management' --- in the programs that tweak the program mode based on the lens attached to prefer the lens 'sweet spot'.





DRIVE SYSTEM:
New AF system with 3D tracking
Continuous capture at 8 FPS and adjustable down to 3 FPS
Live View with contrast control focusing
11 main Auto Focus points with multiple assist points



I don't care whether they call the AF system 'new' or not, but one that can deal
with the 'Here comes the Bride' photo sequence.--- i.e. an object moving fairly quickly
to or away from the camera at fairly close range. After all if the object is a grisly bear coming to eat you, it would be nice to leave the family some nice photos of what happened, rather than simply having the camera jam up and take no photos because the AF was baffled.



Extra Goodies:
Intuitive menu system that can be arranged to users liking
Extra settings for multiple AF adjustments
New LI-ION battery capable of 2000 shots on a full charge and low drain in cold/hot temps
Sleek style and make it feel like a luxury camera just to make others drool!




Good battery life is more important than ever. the US goverment is banning extra batteries in luggage.--but will allow them in cameras. Grips with extra battereries are critical.

Some way to tell how much life is left in the battery would be helpful. current technology just tells you the battery is dead, and you already knew that.

I suggest a high end grip option--- that has a massive 'super storage' area in it that would
allow a large number of RAW photos to be stored.

For the live view.--- an interface that lets the 'live view' display on my laptop computer, and optionally, allows full control of all camera functions from the computer asa well.

It's ok if its on the grip, but the remote control should be an open technology that allows
distance between the camera and the computer.---- I'd prefer to see it happen by
an RJ45 port and a standard IP network protocol. otherwise USB.

If a remote computer is attached, I'd like to see it have an option for storing directly to the remote computer....-----which is why the Gig E, IP interface with negotiations to slower speeds.

Above all else: Fill out the accessory line.---- A macro Flash, (ringlight), new teleconverters,

Lenses: Fill out the lens line: --- A wider than 14mm prime. and some extreme telephotos (longer than on the roadmap). --Probably a 600mm prime or a
135-600 zoom.




Feel free to add onto this or even change some things around. I'll hopefully send a good list off to Pentax with a copy of this thread. Oh, and they may read this so lets be reasonable with our dreams

Just some comments.....
01-01-2008, 12:38 AM   #7
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Ricehigh, you really are an over obsessed Blind Brand Pentax Loyalist. Your dedication to the Pentax brand is admirable but just face the fact that Pentax is dying and will soon be out of business.

I loath to see someone of your immense intelligence, dedication and measurebating skills wasting your god given talents on such a worthless camera that has no hope of survival in this cruel world.

Please, I beg of you, devote your energy, your soul and your life to ensuring the world that canon does not rest on its laurels with the perfection of the 5D.

I implore you to measurebate that 5D to within an inch of its life - tell the world of your findings, highlight any minor deficiencies to canons high command and spread the word through your newly named canon blog. And please don't stop with just the 5D, as you have proven to us, time and time again you can perform feats of measurebating without even having the camera, how fortunate for you that you never had to sully your hands on the K10D- truly you are the chosen one.

Canon deserves and needs someone of your calibre, RiceHigh, please, please go to them with your ideas; they will welcome you with open arms , of that I am certain.

Don't look back RiceHigh, leave us to our mouldering antiquated Pentax equipment. God knows you tried to help us see the light sooner and join the canon fold.

Please don't see our blindness to Pentax as a failure on your part, just ensure that for those of us who survive the downfall of Pentax, that there will be a great canon utopia for us to aspire to - just as you have done. Let go of Pentax RiceHigh, it is a lost cause.
01-01-2008, 12:58 AM   #8
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Sorry for shanghaiing your thread Codiac - I just can't help having a go at RH every now and again.

Anyway to the original intentions of this thread - it is really nice to fantasise about what we want in our ideal camera and I find it sort of bizarre that we are now looking at the possibility of an 18MP camera considering it was only a few years ago that I was so happy with my 6MP DS (still am to be honest)

What I find even stranger is the fact (and it is fact) that most if not all photos taken will be shown to relatives, friends and the world as compressed 72 dpi jpegs - a very minor percentage of shots will ever be printed and an extraordinarily minor percentage will ever be blown up to the sizes that require such high MP's.

But the reality is that the consumer wants more MP's, more dynamic range (I bet you that most wouldn't have a clue what it is though), faster AF, more fps etc, etc.

And the largest section of the DSLR consumer market will be using these high end 18MP cameras with 50 FPS to take pictures (using a $100 kit lens) of kids playing sports to be shared with relatives through emails seen on screen at 72dpi.

Hope the Ds can last me out till the 30MP 100fps 3d Pentax K whatever comes out.

01-01-2008, 01:13 AM   #9
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I'd also add a TTL sensor just as the *istD series had. Having one of these old bodies, it's a joy to use my AF400T. I just find it simpler and more reliable.

Like the idea of user setting menus. Make it possible to plug the camera into a computer and set the menu system up on the computer as you want it then save it to the camera.

Make the RAW button cycle through RAW - RAW + Jpeg - Jpeg.

Replaceable viewfinder prisms AKA the LX series. Allow a split screen for manual focus (macros or older Legacy glass).

One touch manual WB setting. No menus or function buttons. Just hold out the WB card and hit the button, then start shooting.

User selected picture titles. Back to the computer setup ( set up your file system here and save it to the camera). Allow the user to choose the title system for the shot. If you have 2 + bodies, you need ways to avoid overlapping counters.

Built in radio wireless. AKA Pocket wizards.

Some electronic method of compensation for the red sensor filter to allow better IR shooting.

Body buttons that have a dim glow (user selectable) So when shooting in the dark you can see buttons you might not often use. Add an LCD timer that stays on during the shot. AKA PZ-1p

MZ-S Interval timer remote.

ISO's 25, 64 all the way tp 3200 (+)

Is it time to go back to CF cards? Because of the size the memory will continue to be bigger than an SD can handle.

Last edited by Peter Zack; 01-01-2008 at 08:34 AM.
01-01-2008, 04:08 AM   #10
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Guys! you don't even have the next camera in hands and you are already speculating on next, next....
How about: Let's speculate what Pentax will release in 2010...
01-01-2008, 05:11 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Your wishlist are mostly about features and performance aspects that other DSLR makers have now but not Pentax and indeed that's what I have been asking for but then you just don't agree with me from time to time.
It sounds like that, but not the same. The previous models were both priced well below what you wanted. Why should a camera priced like a rebel be better than a Canon 40D at every little aspect? The K10D was an advanced camera, but not meant to be used for professionals, but people of great talent purchased this camera and saw it was more than a base camera.

Pentax did an amazing thing and I'll explain it here:
They developed two cameras (K100D and K10D) and wanted to see which would appeal more to the photo enthusiast. They truly thought the market had no place for a camera like the K10D and made the price low enough that people would see the true value of all those features it has versus a true comparable camera at nearly $500 more so at least it would sell. Once Pentax had the K10D circulated it watched and listened to what users loved and hated about the camera. Originally Pentax was taken back by the demand and also seeing that many of the people who purchased the K10D wanted something a little better or tweaks to certain features. The K10D sales increase exponentially to the point that Pentax is selling the camera faster than imagined and not the camera they felt was going to sell so fast. The K10D sold and sold and they listened to the user base and began to develop the K20D. After dismissing the Sony sensor because of cost/availability and the fact it's not an advancement over the Canon sensor technology which the current Pentax crowd compares most of their work too. After six months of listening to the new Pentax user base that has formed they developed a new camera and began production of a new sensor and base mode/settings and features of the new body. The new body took form right before October and was about to be announced soon, but the plan failed due to issues with Hoya wanting to be a bigger part of the camera development. Pentax removed a few features in order to make room for more features in the K20D, including an upgraded menu system with cleaner menu's, more customization, better control and some hardware components that should bring the house down come later this month. Instead of being a revolutionary camera based on it's shear value for the dollar and being just being capable of producing great results the new flagship, until next Christmas at least, will be an innovative leader. The camera will have many if not most of the truly important features covered plus a leap in the right direction for Pentax in terms of whizbang features you guys didn't know could exist.

This is the reason I didn't care RH, I knew the camera was meant to be a great camera capable of better things, yet not perfect. Capable is a big word and the K10D is the most capable camera ever made at the price. I can get professional results with the camera and achieve almost everything I'd ever want to do, even sports, as long as I work with the camera and not ask it to do what I know it cannot do. Now that the Pentax will be bringing in a bargain pro-sumer model soon you and I will have a great time talking camera again because I think you'll be happy, but there will be a few things people won't like. I already don't like some aspects of the camera, but what I get far outweighs these minuses 110%. This is why I talk about the next-next camera, because Pentax is working on it and as soon as the K20D hits the flock of news channels this month they will be working hard at their next development. I already know a few things about the next-next camera and it's been brought up, so rest assured they are listening again to the costumer base trying to get that perfect balance of features for dollar so when Christmas hits we can waste all our hard earned money on another body.
01-01-2008, 05:46 AM   #12
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WOW!!!!

QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Well all you lucky Pentaxian, it's almost time to hear about the new entry and pro-sumer level DSLR's from Pentax.

Instead of speculating on the K20D, let's get a great list of what we'd like in a Semi-Pro body priced in around $2000.

Here is what I consider a great set that Pentax has the capability of producing come Christmas 2008.

SENSOR:
18+ Megapixel High Resolution CMOS sensor
Advanced sensor technology for truer colours and lower noise
Maybe Full-Frame, but it most likely will not have this just yet!
Advanced Shake Reduction up to 6 stops and smarter

BODY:
Weather sealed
Magnesium Build or an another alloy
Buttons and dials for all camera settings on body (ISO, WB, AF burst ratio)
PC sync port
Vertical grip built right into the whole deal
100% viewfinder with adjustable level of magnification
Live histogram in the viewfinder
Built-in wireless PTTL transmitter and focus assist lamp without pop-up flash

DRIVE SYSTEM:
New AF system with 3D tracking
Continuous capture at 8 FPS and adjustable down to 3 FPS
Live View with contrast control focusing
11 main Auto Focus points with multiple assist points

Extra Goodies:
Intuitive menu system that can be arranged to users liking
Extra settings for multiple AF adjustments
New LI-ION battery capable of 2000 shots on a full charge and low drain in cold/hot temps
Sleek style and make it feel like a luxury camera just to make others drool!

Feel free to add onto this or even change some things around. I'll hopefully send a good list off to Pentax with a copy of this thread. Oh, and they may read this so lets be reasonable with our dreams

Geez Dude...That is quite a bundle of stuff you put together...You must have put quite a bit of objective and of course intuitive thought in to the process.

It almost seems like you have some kind of insider info that even I am not privy to.

Geez an 18+ mega pixel sensor. That is quite a bit to bite off...No? But heck, if I could dream up a Pentax for the future I would love to take it in the direction you are suggesting.

What the hell why not take it closer to 20 mp's... Nah, Pentax couldn't pull that off. That is getting deep in to Canon territory...Isn't it?

Gee, I guess we will have to wait and see...No?
01-01-2008, 05:50 AM   #13
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Chris, with all due respect; I am not sure whether you have nice phantasy (or read a lot of speculations) or just insider's knowledge.

My bet is on the first.

If you had the knowledge, you'ld sound more like Ben, telling us less about what's been going on, and enjoying reading the topic. Reason: you would be forbidden by your contract to leak company secrets.

But i should say: I am not sure, and impressed by your ideas!
01-01-2008, 05:54 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
[...]the new flagship, until next Christmas at least, will be an innovative leader. The camera will have many if not most of the truly important features covered plus a leap in the right direction for Pentax in terms of whizbang features you guys didn't know could exist.
So you are talking about features not seen in other cameras, right?
Or features we wouldn't expect at that price ?
01-01-2008, 06:01 AM   #15
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falcons you are p*ss funny hahaha
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