New Lenses Announcement (K and Q mount)

ElJamoquio · 02-09-2012, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Nope, it needs hardware changes to make sure the mirror would be mechanically locked up even with the camera turned off and without batteries.
I don't think the current cameras would be able to do that only with a firmware change.

I don't think the rear elements interfere with the mirror itself in the 'mirror down' position; I think they interfere with the mirror 'swing'.

If true, you can still error proof when the camera is turned off, etc. The camera just won't allow the shutter button to do anything when pressed.

If false your concerns are valid.

Kunzite · 02-09-2012, 11:17 AM

Yes, it looks it won't touch the mirror when in down position. However, I was talking about the case when the mirror is up, and the camera is turned off or the battery dies (the mirror would go down then).

I think this could be something like the EF-S, i.e. maybe the lens can be used with future DSLRs (a modification of the mirror mechanism would be necessary). The protrusion doesn't seems so big.
But I'm not sure if Pentax wants this, or to go all the way and make a mirrorless-only (i.e. longer protrusions possible) solution.

**monochrome** · 02-09-2012, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

Hoya/Pentax US screwed the B&M guys with some of those policies and that is why it's hardly at retail in the US - it did however prevent the big losses nikon and canon took on ritz

Yes, they raised the floor nuimbers to the point that almost all of them had to drop Pentax. At least in St. Louis we still have a 9-store Indie who buys direct.

Combine Pentax, Ricoh, product, volume and some willingness to build realtionships and our long-stated truism that people won't buy cameras they can't hold first might finally be address.

Did you see Pentax is the featured camera of a Safari COmpany (announcement thread in News). They're MARKETING!!!

Next jawdropping surprise I expect to see is a network TV ad campaign. How about NCAA Basketball Final Four?

Well. Ricoh has a plan but it probably doesn't include that.

Gimbal · 02-09-2012, 11:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

I don't think the rear elements interfere with the mirror itself in the 'mirror down' position; I think they interfere with the mirror 'swing'.

No, but it's pretty close. Lets hope the mirror mechanism is built to not be damaged if locked down by the lens.

On a FF though there will be mirror damage if a lens is forced into the mount.

ElJamoquio · 02-09-2012, 11:44 AM

Perhaps a rubberized-outer coating will actually 'gently brush' the mirror to remind you that it won't work?

Nevermind, just typing out loud.

Erik · 02-09-2012, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Perhaps a rubberized-outer coating will actually 'gently brush' the mirror to remind you that it won't work?

Nevermind, just typing out loud.

More likely -- or, what I would do if I were Pentax -- there will be firmware upgrades for the recent/popular Pentax DSLRs that read the chip in the lens and refuse to fire off the shot (accompanied by a helpful error message) if the new XS lens is mounted. For all I know, that code could already be in the latest firmware I installed in my K-5.

But this, too, is just me typing out loud

retroflex · 02-09-2012, 11:52 AM

Still would be a problem when you run out of batteries though...

eddie1960 · 02-09-2012, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by RickParkhurst

Nothing is idiot proof to a determined idiot!

I am excited about the new lenses and all the other good news of late! The only bad thing is that the doom and gloomers will not be selling their equipment for cheap!

lmao had to steal that for my signature

drugal · 02-09-2012, 05:14 PM

So here I go trying to be funny

My luggage tag used to say "It's hard to make anything fool proof because fools are so ingenious!"

It was a free give away from an engineering firm my Dad worked with.

Smeggypants · 02-09-2012, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Unsinkable II

My thoughts exactly. Not a bad thing either as my 50/1.7 is sharper than my 50/1.4. A very nice lens indeed.

You're missing out on a lot of cool photography if you limit your agenda to sharpness. I have both the 50/1.7 and 50/1.4 and they are two different beasts. If I had to give one up I'd give up the 50/1.7

Alizarine · 02-09-2012, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Volume from K-01, XS lenses and a cheap, fast 50, even if not directly profitable to Pentax, helps B&M retailers "make" the minimum stocking / minimum revenue direct buying targets. Pentax can use that volume as a lever to develop new Dealers, expand shelf in existing Dealers and rebuild a crew of Dealer Reps. This will be necessary in 2013-2014 as we will see.

Originally posted by eddie1960

so do i but reality is the cheap fast 50 is a big hole in the line that will sell in huge volumes compared to a 1.2 which will be damn expensive Canon and Nikon sell boatloads of the cheap ones so it's a better profit generator than a high price lens since it will turn fast and not tie up inventory dollars

Had to quote these. Sell the cheapo's by volume first, give more newbies out there with Pentax glass to play on-- more stuff to come in the future!

octavmandru · 02-10-2012, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Why? Of course, I assumed a firmware upgrade, enforcing MLU with a protruding XS lens.

Coudn't work. Mirror is always down so installing an XS lens would require mirror UP before mounting the XS.
An upgrade could at best prevent taking any picture with an XS lens. Now, we wouldn't like that, would we?

falconeye · 02-10-2012, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by octavmandru

Mirror is always down

Not necessarily after a firmware upgrade. E.g., pressing the RAW button with the lens off could trigger MLU.

And it can't be idiot proof anyway. Because if the lens hits a mirror during putting on the body, it will crash the mirror regardless if it would have taken a photo or not. So, I assume at least initially, the protrusion will be limited to not hit the mirror when down.

eddie1960 · 02-10-2012, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

And it can't be idiot proof anyway..

People already break their cameras on a regular basis nothing is idiot proof to a determined idiot

**monochrome** · 02-10-2012, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Not necessarily after a firmware upgrade. E.g., pressing the RAW button with the lens off could trigger MLU.

And it can't be idiot proof anyway. Because if the lens hits a mirror during putting on the body, it will crash the mirror regardless if it would have taken a photo or not. So, I assume at least initially, the protrusion will be limited to not hit the mirror when down.

A mechanical solutuion would be necessary, such as a larger ear on one of the XS lens flanges and a modified body mount to match.

In such a mod any K mount lens would still mount to an "XS-permitted" body (K-01) but XS lenses could not be mounted to non-"XS-permitted" bodies.

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02-09-2012, 11:09 AM	#151
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Kunzite Nope, it needs hardware changes to make sure the mirror would be mechanically locked up even with the camera turned off and without batteries. I don't think the current cameras would be able to do that only with a firmware change. I don't think the rear elements interfere with the mirror itself in the 'mirror down' position; I think they interfere with the mirror 'swing'. If true, you can still error proof when the camera is turned off, etc. The camera just won't allow the shutter button to do anything when pressed. If false your concerns are valid.

02-09-2012, 11:17 AM	#152
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Yes, it looks it won't touch the mirror when in down position. However, I was talking about the case when the mirror is up, and the camera is turned off or the battery dies (the mirror would go down then). I think this could be something like the EF-S, i.e. maybe the lens can be used with future DSLRs (a modification of the mirror mechanism would be necessary). The protrusion doesn't seems so big. But I'm not sure if Pentax wants this, or to go all the way and make a mirrorless-only (i.e. longer protrusions possible) solution.

02-09-2012, 11:33 AM	#153
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by eddie1960 Hoya/Pentax US screwed the B&M guys with some of those policies and that is why it's hardly at retail in the US - it did however prevent the big losses nikon and canon took on ritz Yes, they raised the floor nuimbers to the point that almost all of them had to drop Pentax. At least in St. Louis we still have a 9-store Indie who buys direct. Combine Pentax, Ricoh, product, volume and some willingness to build realtionships and our long-stated truism that people won't buy cameras they can't hold first might finally be address. Did you see Pentax is the featured camera of a Safari COmpany (announcement thread in News). They're MARKETING!!! Next jawdropping surprise I expect to see is a network TV ad campaign. How about NCAA Basketball Final Four? Well. Ricoh has a plan but it probably doesn't include that.

02-09-2012, 11:40 AM - 1 Like	#154
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by ElJamoquio I don't think the rear elements interfere with the mirror itself in the 'mirror down' position; I think they interfere with the mirror 'swing'. No, but it's pretty close. Lets hope the mirror mechanism is built to not be damaged if locked down by the lens. On a FF though there will be mirror damage if a lens is forced into the mount.

02-09-2012, 11:44 AM	#155
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Perhaps a rubberized-outer coating will actually 'gently brush' the mirror to remind you that it won't work? Nevermind, just typing out loud.

02-09-2012, 11:48 AM	#156
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Perhaps a rubberized-outer coating will actually 'gently brush' the mirror to remind you that it won't work? Nevermind, just typing out loud. More likely -- or, what I would do if I were Pentax -- there will be firmware upgrades for the recent/popular Pentax DSLRs that read the chip in the lens and refuse to fire off the shot (accompanied by a helpful error message) if the new XS lens is mounted. For all I know, that code could already be in the latest firmware I installed in my K-5. But this, too, is just me typing out loud

02-09-2012, 11:52 AM	#157
retroflex Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mölnlycke Photos: Albums Posts: 98	Still would be a problem when you run out of batteries though...

02-09-2012, 12:01 PM	#158
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by RickParkhurst Nothing is idiot proof to a determined idiot! I am excited about the new lenses and all the other good news of late! The only bad thing is that the doom and gloomers will not be selling their equipment for cheap! lmao had to steal that for my signature

02-09-2012, 05:14 PM	#159
drugal Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Detroit suburbs Photos: Gallery Posts: 259	So here I go trying to be funny My luggage tag used to say "It's hard to make anything fool proof because fools are so ingenious!" It was a free give away from an engineering firm my Dad worked with.

02-09-2012, 06:23 PM	#160
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by Unsinkable II My thoughts exactly. Not a bad thing either as my 50/1.7 is sharper than my 50/1.4. A very nice lens indeed. You're missing out on a lot of cool photography if you limit your agenda to sharpness. I have both the 50/1.7 and 50/1.4 and they are two different beasts. If I had to give one up I'd give up the 50/1.7

02-09-2012, 09:51 PM	#161
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by monochrome Volume from K-01, XS lenses and a cheap, fast 50, even if not directly profitable to Pentax, helps B&M retailers "make" the minimum stocking / minimum revenue direct buying targets. Pentax can use that volume as a lever to develop new Dealers, expand shelf in existing Dealers and rebuild a crew of Dealer Reps. This will be necessary in 2013-2014 as we will see. Originally posted by eddie1960 so do i but reality is the cheap fast 50 is a big hole in the line that will sell in huge volumes compared to a 1.2 which will be damn expensive Canon and Nikon sell boatloads of the cheap ones so it's a better profit generator than a high price lens since it will turn fast and not tie up inventory dollars Had to quote these. Sell the cheapo's by volume first, give more newbies out there with Pentax glass to play on-- more stuff to come in the future!

02-10-2012, 01:36 AM	#162
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Originally posted by falconeye Why? Of course, I assumed a firmware upgrade, enforcing MLU with a protruding XS lens. Coudn't work. Mirror is always down so installing an XS lens would require mirror UP before mounting the XS. An upgrade could at best prevent taking any picture with an XS lens. Now, we wouldn't like that, would we?

02-10-2012, 06:27 AM	#163
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by octavmandru Mirror is always down Not necessarily after a firmware upgrade. E.g., pressing the RAW button with the lens off could trigger MLU. And it can't be idiot proof anyway. Because if the lens hits a mirror during putting on the body, it will crash the mirror regardless if it would have taken a photo or not. So, I assume at least initially, the protrusion will be limited to not hit the mirror when down.

02-10-2012, 07:28 AM	#164
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by falconeye And it can't be idiot proof anyway.. People already break their cameras on a regular basis nothing is idiot proof to a determined idiot

02-10-2012, 07:56 AM	#165
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by falconeye Not necessarily after a firmware upgrade. E.g., pressing the RAW button with the lens off could trigger MLU. And it can't be idiot proof anyway. Because if the lens hits a mirror during putting on the body, it will crash the mirror regardless if it would have taken a photo or not. So, I assume at least initially, the protrusion will be limited to not hit the mirror when down. A mechanical solutuion would be necessary, such as a larger ear on one of the XS lens flanges and a modified body mount to match. In such a mod any K mount lens would still mount to an "XS-permitted" body (K-01) but XS lenses could not be mounted to non-"XS-permitted" bodies.