The optical design of DA 18-250

Fototim · 01-02-2008, 07:22 AM

I just had an interesting conversation of with Fovi, the norwegian importer of Pentax. They claim that the optical design of the DA 18-250 is made by Pentax. The guy I spoke with told me that this is what Pentax told him.

I haven't found any evidense suporting this, but Fovi are usually well informed.

I don't have enough information to make any conclusions, but IMO this strongly suggests that there is a optical differnse between the Tamron and Pentax version of the lens. (A optical differense does not mean that the Pentax is better, just different)

I also asked if the chip in the Pentax version made any differense in MTF program mode. They did not have any information on this topic.

Tim

mattdm · 01-02-2008, 07:57 AM

Or, it means that Pentax did the optical design for the Tamron version in the first place.

thibs · 01-02-2008, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by mattdm

Or, it means that Pentax did the optical design for the Tamron version in the first place.

Which I doubt very much.
Pentax never designed extreme zoom like these. Even the FA28-200 was a Tamron design why would they suddenly design such a good extreme zoom is beyond me. Not that they can't do it, they probably know much better at other things than lose time doing this.

This is typical marketing BS. At the same time, I do not see them admitting they did not design it

Fototim · 01-02-2008, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by mattdm

Or, it means that Pentax did the optical design for the Tamron version in the first place.

That was my first reaction too. I asked about it. The response on this was vague. He simply implied there where optical differenses.
Between the lines, I read co-development and different tweaking. But thats my conclusion.

Tim

Last edited by Fototim; 01-02-2008 at 08:51 AM.

Fototim · 01-02-2008, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Which I doubt very much.
Pentax never designed extreme zoom like these. Even the FA28-200 was a Tamron design why would they suddenly design such a good extreme zoom is beyond me. Not that they can't do it, they probably know much better at other things than lose time doing this.

This is typical marketing BS. At the same time, I do not see them admitting they did not design it

I see your points. But there is a first time for everything you know. A few years ago some may have said similar things about Pentax designing an DSRL.

About the BS part. I honestly don't know. The reason I posted it was the way he expressed this. It was more a claim, than vague marketing talk. He also explicidly said it came from the horses mouth. A bit more than usual marketing BS IMO.

Tim

BTW.

I just ordered the Pentax version. Got a better price on the Pentax than on the Tamron. It made the price differense insignificant. I celebrated it by ordering a DA* 50-135 to fill up the box :-)
I'm very exited about both.

**Canada_Rockies** · 01-02-2008, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Fototim

I just had an interesting conversation of with Fovi, the norwegian importer of Pentax. They claim that the optical design of the DA 18-250 is made by Pentax. The guy I spoke with told me that this is what Pentax told him.

I haven't found any evidense suporting this, but Fovi are usually well informed.

I don't have enough information to make any conclusions, but IMO this strongly suggests that there is a optical differnse between the Tamron and Pentax version of the lens. (A optical differense does not mean that the Pentax is better, just different)

I also asked if the chip in the Pentax version made any differense in MTF program mode. They did not have any information on this topic.

Tim

Information I have read have indicated that Pentax is co-operating with Tokina and Tamron on lens design. Together they design a lens, then manufacture each themselves.

nosnoop · 01-02-2008, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Canada_Rockies

Information I have read have indicated that Pentax is co-operating with Tokina and Tamron on lens design. Together they design a lens, then manufacture each themselves.

There is no truth to that. There will not be a Tokina version.

In addition, if Pentax were involved at the design stage, the lens would have appeared in the road map long ago. Basically the Pentax 18-250 version appeared out of the blue. And you can see that it is identical to Tamron's design right down to the lens cap. (Compare this with Pentax vs Tokina lens differences for DA* and other lenses) And if you compare the lens reflection, it looks like even the lens coating is from Tamron rather than Pentax SMC despite the name on the lens.

thibs · 01-02-2008, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by nosnoop

There is no truth to that. There will not be a Tokina version.

I think his point was to say that Pentax worked with both Tokina and Tamron (which I doubt about the Tamron part). It doesn't mean Tokina and Tamron do talk to each others. Only that Pentax talk to both of'em and rebrand lenses from both manufacturers.

We will see.

mawz · 01-02-2008, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Fototim

I just had an interesting conversation of with Fovi, the norwegian importer of Pentax. They claim that the optical design of the DA 18-250 is made by Pentax. The guy I spoke with told me that this is what Pentax told him.

I haven't found any evidense suporting this, but Fovi are usually well informed.

I don't have enough information to make any conclusions, but IMO this strongly suggests that there is a optical differnse between the Tamron and Pentax version of the lens. (A optical differense does not mean that the Pentax is better, just different)

I also asked if the chip in the Pentax version made any differense in MTF program mode. They did not have any information on this topic.

Tim

It's a Tamron design, an update of their 18-200 design for improved range and optical performance. In fact the Pentax version is actually closer to the Sony version (which shares the faster AF gearing) than the Tamron version. Each version uses coating specific to its brand (Sony uses Minolta's coating tech, Tamron uses Tamron coating, Pentax has SMC coating).

Fototim · 01-02-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by mawz

It's a Tamron design, an update of their 18-200 design for improved range and optical performance. In fact the Pentax version is actually closer to the Sony version (which shares the faster AF gearing) than the Tamron version. Each version uses coating specific to its brand (Sony uses Minolta's coating tech, Tamron uses Tamron coating, Pentax has SMC coating).

I know this version of the origin of the lens, read it several times at various forums. And it makes sense. The fact that it showed up out of the blue without being introduced at the roadmap, supports this version of the story. But Pentax has new managment now. So they could change their politic regarding preintroductions and hints. There are rumours about a DA* 11-16 now, but nothihing sbout this at the roadmap.

I honestly don't know whatto beleave. I simply reported what a valid source told me. What he was told by some source inside Pentax, could be the sales departement, he wasn't specific. Make your own conclusions.

Tim

CSpronken · 01-02-2008, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Fototim

I know this version of the origin of the lens, read it several times at various forums. And it makes sense. The fact that it showed up out of the blue without being introduced at the roadmap, supports this version of the story. But Pentax has new managment now. So they could change their politic regarding preintroductions and hints. There are rumours about a DA* 11-16 now, but nothihing sbout this at the roadmap.

That's funny, had a DA* 10-16mm on my personal Pentax lens roadmap/wishlist. Well would be quite a logical lens to add to their line up I guess.

thibs · 01-02-2008, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Fototim

I honestly don't know whatto beleave. I simply reported what a valid source told me. What he was told by some source inside Pentax, could be the sales departement, he wasn't specific.

If it comes from sales department, it has no value at all IMO. Salesman (from big corps) dunno what they sell. That's not their job. They have their reasons for you to beleive that story.

We than you for that information nonetheless, being true or not, it is interesting anyway.

simonkit · 01-02-2008, 04:21 PM

I've seen lots of posts on several forums on this topic & honestly believe that the Pentax 18-250 is the Tamron rebadged. It appeared as "from nowhere" - no advanced publicity - I'm certain if Pentax had been developing such a lens they would have made more noise.

Ultimately it doesn't matter who makes it - the 18-250 (tamron or Pentax) looks a very impressive lens consider its focal range. I'll certainly be buying one, probably the Tamron as its noticeably cheaper than the pentax in the UK

simon

mawz · 01-02-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by CSpronken

That's funny, had a DA* 10-16mm on my personal Pentax lens roadmap/wishlist. Well would be quite a logical lens to add to their line up I guess.

It's nearly a given. Tokina has one, Pentax needs a f2.8 ultra-wide zoom. And Tokina owes Pentax some designs (Pentax got the 12-24, Tokina got the 10-17, 16-50, 50-135 and the 35 macro so far). I suspect Pentax didn't have it on the roadmap because Tokina didn't know when the optical design would be ready, and Pentax still needs to design a barrel and focusing system for their version. I'm expecting it to get announced on the 24th but not be seen in stores until late summer or early fall. Pentax has too many other lenses already announced that it needs to deliver first.

CSpronken · 01-02-2008, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by mawz

Tokina has one, Pentax needs a f2.8 ultra-wide zoom. .

You think it will be f2.8? At 11-16mm that would be quite extreme wouldn't it, I mean are there other brands with a lens like that?

01-02-2008, 07:22 AM	#1
Fototim Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 268	The optical design of DA 18-250 I just had an interesting conversation of with Fovi, the norwegian importer of Pentax. They claim that the optical design of the DA 18-250 is made by Pentax. The guy I spoke with told me that this is what Pentax told him. I haven't found any evidense suporting this, but Fovi are usually well informed. I don't have enough information to make any conclusions, but IMO this strongly suggests that there is a optical differnse between the Tamron and Pentax version of the lens. (A optical differense does not mean that the Pentax is better, just different) I also asked if the chip in the Pentax version made any differense in MTF program mode. They did not have any information on this topic. Tim

01-02-2008, 08:49 AM	#5
Fototim Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 268 Original Poster	Originally posted by thibs Which I doubt very much. Pentax never designed extreme zoom like these. Even the FA28-200 was a Tamron design why would they suddenly design such a good extreme zoom is beyond me. Not that they can't do it, they probably know much better at other things than lose time doing this. This is typical marketing BS. At the same time, I do not see them admitting they did not design it I see your points. But there is a first time for everything you know. A few years ago some may have said similar things about Pentax designing an DSRL. About the BS part. I honestly don't know. The reason I posted it was the way he expressed this. It was more a claim, than vague marketing talk. He also explicidly said it came from the horses mouth. A bit more than usual marketing BS IMO. Tim BTW. I just ordered the Pentax version. Got a better price on the Pentax than on the Tamron. It made the price differense insignificant. I celebrated it by ordering a DA* 50-135 to fill up the box :-) I'm very exited about both. Last edited by Fototim; 01-02-2008 at 12:20 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
FA Limited lens series won the 2010 Good Design Long Life Design Award	Patriot	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	26	11-29-2010 06:16 AM
Sigma 18-250 or Pentax/Tamron 18-250?	mjbens01	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	3	07-08-2010 09:10 PM
Pentax 18-250 always same as Tamron 18-250?	kitkat	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	12	07-08-2010 08:30 AM
Which Pentax-branded lenses are based on third-party (optical) design?	zaurus	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	29	01-15-2009 09:19 PM
Why DA18-250 is double the price of Tamron 18-250?	raider	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	6	12-13-2008 05:40 AM

01-02-2008, 07:57 AM	#2
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Or, it means that Pentax did the optical design for the Tamron version in the first place.

01-02-2008, 08:16 AM	#3
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by mattdm Or, it means that Pentax did the optical design for the Tamron version in the first place. Which I doubt very much. Pentax never designed extreme zoom like these. Even the FA28-200 was a Tamron design why would they suddenly design such a good extreme zoom is beyond me. Not that they can't do it, they probably know much better at other things than lose time doing this. This is typical marketing BS. At the same time, I do not see them admitting they did not design it

01-02-2008, 08:39 AM	#4
Fototim Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 268 Original Poster	Originally posted by mattdm Or, it means that Pentax did the optical design for the Tamron version in the first place. That was my first reaction too. I asked about it. The response on this was vague. He simply implied there where optical differenses. Between the lines, I read co-development and different tweaking. But thats my conclusion. Tim Last edited by Fototim; 01-02-2008 at 08:51 AM.

01-02-2008, 09:25 AM	#6
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by Fototim I just had an interesting conversation of with Fovi, the norwegian importer of Pentax. They claim that the optical design of the DA 18-250 is made by Pentax. The guy I spoke with told me that this is what Pentax told him. I haven't found any evidense suporting this, but Fovi are usually well informed. I don't have enough information to make any conclusions, but IMO this strongly suggests that there is a optical differnse between the Tamron and Pentax version of the lens. (A optical differense does not mean that the Pentax is better, just different) I also asked if the chip in the Pentax version made any differense in MTF program mode. They did not have any information on this topic. Tim Information I have read have indicated that Pentax is co-operating with Tokina and Tamron on lens design. Together they design a lens, then manufacture each themselves.

01-02-2008, 09:57 AM	#7
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by Canada_Rockies Information I have read have indicated that Pentax is co-operating with Tokina and Tamron on lens design. Together they design a lens, then manufacture each themselves. There is no truth to that. There will not be a Tokina version. In addition, if Pentax were involved at the design stage, the lens would have appeared in the road map long ago. Basically the Pentax 18-250 version appeared out of the blue. And you can see that it is identical to Tamron's design right down to the lens cap. (Compare this with Pentax vs Tokina lens differences for DA* and other lenses) And if you compare the lens reflection, it looks like even the lens coating is from Tamron rather than Pentax SMC despite the name on the lens.

01-02-2008, 11:01 AM	#8
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by nosnoop There is no truth to that. There will not be a Tokina version. I think his point was to say that Pentax worked with both Tokina and Tamron (which I doubt about the Tamron part). It doesn't mean Tokina and Tamron do talk to each others. Only that Pentax talk to both of'em and rebrand lenses from both manufacturers. We will see.

01-02-2008, 11:51 AM	#9
mawz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 166	Originally posted by Fototim I just had an interesting conversation of with Fovi, the norwegian importer of Pentax. They claim that the optical design of the DA 18-250 is made by Pentax. The guy I spoke with told me that this is what Pentax told him. I haven't found any evidense suporting this, but Fovi are usually well informed. I don't have enough information to make any conclusions, but IMO this strongly suggests that there is a optical differnse between the Tamron and Pentax version of the lens. (A optical differense does not mean that the Pentax is better, just different) I also asked if the chip in the Pentax version made any differense in MTF program mode. They did not have any information on this topic. Tim It's a Tamron design, an update of their 18-200 design for improved range and optical performance. In fact the Pentax version is actually closer to the Sony version (which shares the faster AF gearing) than the Tamron version. Each version uses coating specific to its brand (Sony uses Minolta's coating tech, Tamron uses Tamron coating, Pentax has SMC coating).

01-02-2008, 12:18 PM	#10
Fototim Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 268 Original Poster	Originally posted by mawz It's a Tamron design, an update of their 18-200 design for improved range and optical performance. In fact the Pentax version is actually closer to the Sony version (which shares the faster AF gearing) than the Tamron version. Each version uses coating specific to its brand (Sony uses Minolta's coating tech, Tamron uses Tamron coating, Pentax has SMC coating). I know this version of the origin of the lens, read it several times at various forums. And it makes sense. The fact that it showed up out of the blue without being introduced at the roadmap, supports this version of the story. But Pentax has new managment now. So they could change their politic regarding preintroductions and hints. There are rumours about a DA* 11-16 now, but nothihing sbout this at the roadmap. I honestly don't know whatto beleave. I simply reported what a valid source told me. What he was told by some source inside Pentax, could be the sales departement, he wasn't specific. Make your own conclusions. Tim

01-02-2008, 12:28 PM	#11
CSpronken Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 105	Originally posted by Fototim I know this version of the origin of the lens, read it several times at various forums. And it makes sense. The fact that it showed up out of the blue without being introduced at the roadmap, supports this version of the story. But Pentax has new managment now. So they could change their politic regarding preintroductions and hints. There are rumours about a DA* 11-16 now, but nothihing sbout this at the roadmap. That's funny, had a DA* 10-16mm on my personal Pentax lens roadmap/wishlist. Well would be quite a logical lens to add to their line up I guess.

01-02-2008, 01:41 PM	#12
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Fototim I honestly don't know whatto beleave. I simply reported what a valid source told me. What he was told by some source inside Pentax, could be the sales departement, he wasn't specific. If it comes from sales department, it has no value at all IMO. Salesman (from big corps) dunno what they sell. That's not their job. They have their reasons for you to beleive that story. We than you for that information nonetheless, being true or not, it is interesting anyway.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-02-2008, 04:21 PM	#13
simonkit Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: North Wales, UK Posts: 645	I've seen lots of posts on several forums on this topic & honestly believe that the Pentax 18-250 is the Tamron rebadged. It appeared as "from nowhere" - no advanced publicity - I'm certain if Pentax had been developing such a lens they would have made more noise. Ultimately it doesn't matter who makes it - the 18-250 (tamron or Pentax) looks a very impressive lens consider its focal range. I'll certainly be buying one, probably the Tamron as its noticeably cheaper than the pentax in the UK simon

01-02-2008, 05:11 PM	#14
mawz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 166	Originally posted by CSpronken That's funny, had a DA* 10-16mm on my personal Pentax lens roadmap/wishlist. Well would be quite a logical lens to add to their line up I guess. It's nearly a given. Tokina has one, Pentax needs a f2.8 ultra-wide zoom. And Tokina owes Pentax some designs (Pentax got the 12-24, Tokina got the 10-17, 16-50, 50-135 and the 35 macro so far). I suspect Pentax didn't have it on the roadmap because Tokina didn't know when the optical design would be ready, and Pentax still needs to design a barrel and focusing system for their version. I'm expecting it to get announced on the 24th but not be seen in stores until late summer or early fall. Pentax has too many other lenses already announced that it needs to deliver first.

01-02-2008, 05:26 PM	#15
CSpronken Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 105	Originally posted by mawz Tokina has one, Pentax needs a f2.8 ultra-wide zoom. . You think it will be f2.8? At 11-16mm that would be quite extreme wouldn't it, I mean are there other brands with a lens like that?